Home General Discussion
The Transformers Forged to Fight community has officially moved to Discord. For all the latest news and updates, join us here!

Introducing: Signature Bounty Arena

1235

Comments

  • Mustangjon wrote: »
    jlvytnoh5i2b.png there are 4* sigs in those crystals assuming rare tho

    True. I did receive 2 4*. 1 warrior 1 scout
  • Hmm... I got 2% and got three 4* program: a generic one, a tactician, and a demo I think. I also now have about 30 or more 3* programs (half came from raids I think)

    3* programs are worth 11 4* shards each and 220 forge points. That means if you’re at a stage of the game where you’re forging 4* bots, 5 3* programs worth more than a 3* dupe because you can chose which bot it goes to (within the confines of class)

    Of course if you’re still collecting 3* bots this is all fairly irrelevant because it’s unlikely you’d rank 2% in arena

    From my point of view, this change is basically a wash. I probably get a little more value from sig programs than 4* shards right now. That’s largely because I have 13-14 4* bots already (about half of them) so new 4*, while cool, aren’t amazingly *useful* outside arenas (except Ratchet!!!!! Where’s my Ratchet :’(
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    Yes some people missing out on the boost to forge etc yes not instant gratification but just like they’ve been tweaking game as of late they are making goals and items achievable in more than one way. Some people hate raids, some hate arenas some hate am, story etc now there are items available throughout the content and I believe this is the true intent of all the changes.

    Those that want to maximize growth can do all facets of those more casual can no focus on what they need when they need it
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    latest sig arena is really bad.. opened all 10 superior sig crystals, 15 sig crystals.. and only got ONE... ONE 4* scout sig upgrade.. used it on my 4* Prowl and it only increased his sig by 1 level (the energy gain % didn't went up coz it's just 1 level??? )

    tell me why I should farm for top 1-2% with 1million+ points if this continues? Where is the MOTIVATION devs? Have u tried played the sig arena yourself once again? Try reach top 1-2% and tell me how u feel about its rewards.

    2* and 3* sig upgrades mostly? really ? like we ever needed them to begin with???
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    edited November 2017
    Serapth wrote: »
    DrShotgun wrote: »
    I'll reenforce my opinion that the rate of 4* crystals really have no bearing on advancement...you can have all the 4* bots you want but if you can't get the Sparks to rank them they're no better than a maxed 2*.

    So yeah, people without existing 4 star teams with the new bracketing are being cut off from earning any 4 star shards at all, so good luck getting out of the ghetto.

    It’s amazingly tone deaf of all the people in here with similar or better rosters than me to be dismissive of complaints. The pure lack of empathy is astonishing.

    These changes are going to make it harder and harder to progress in the game, and that hurts everyone, even the 1%. If people leave on mass, the game dies.
    This.
    Couldn't have said it better (without a Poll of course), we play less, pay less, we remain in the ghetto.

    I sneaked into a chat group of one of the top alliance in my region, where everyone has ROK beaten, one 5/5 and a bunch of 4/5's. They are so motivated and scores 200k points even in Raid and Mod arenas without sweating. They're still having fun with so many bots maxed out, playing AM at level 90 minimum while I can't even beat the Grimlock boss in the Expert mode and skipped the SigUpdate arena to breathe.
  • At the end of the day kabam just get back to milestones and stop this potluck of the rating system. Ultimately players like to have a goal in sight to aim for. Adjust the rewards what you want, choose which arenas you want, and people are going to **** no matter what you do. But i think deep down most just dont like this philosophy of arenas compared to when there we milestones.
  • Kr_DCKr_DC Posts: 15
    Serapth wrote: »
    I think you are missing the huge advantage of 4 stars over 3. They give twice as many points as 3 stars in arena.

    This is a self propagating problem. You need to score high in arenas to gain shards you need for bots to score high in arenas. These days getting the alpha required to R2 a 4 star is trivial.

    That’s the real kicker... if you’ve got teams of 4 stars, putting up massive points is trivial ( I did just shy of 1.4m last arena for example ). It’s also extremely easy for me to hit an infinite streak since I don’t have to sandbag, again giving me a huge point advantage. Without those 4 stars, putting up even half that amount would be a massive amount of work.

    So yeah, people without existing 4 star teams with the new bracketing are being cut off from earning any 4 star shards at all, so good luck getting out of the ghetto.

    It’s amazingly tone deaf of all the people in here with similar or better rosters than me to be dismissive of complaints. The pure lack of empathy is astonishing.

    These changes are going to make it harder and harder to progress in the game, and that hurts everyone, even the 1%. If people leave on mass, the game dies.

    Sadly this is true. I put in my fair share of time in this game and currently have 14 x 4* bots. I got almost all my 4* bots from 4* shards as PBC has netted me only 1 x 4* bot so far.

    Anyway the reality here is, its hard for those who started later and have lesser 4* bots to compete. I usually rank in the 1-2% category but I see others in my alliance who play more matches than me end up ranking significantly lower. I think it kind of demoralizes them to try harder. I guess the only way the players can catch up is if the early players ease off in arena or if the player pool is enlarged. The ideal situation is obviously the later scenario but if new players are disadvantaged from the start, why would they continue to play?

    P.S. I was actually fine with the decision to remove a crystal arena. However, the reason for me was really because it freed up my Sunday to spend time on other activities.
  • Guys, the “weak get weaker rich get stronger” trope really doesn’t hold that much water, mainly for two reasons

    First, you only need 3 good bots to compete at top levels of AM, and 5 to compete at top level story type content. But the top players have 12-20 bots that you’d be happy with in AM. Those bots are useless outside arena and raid defense, but they take weeks of effort to rank and forge up



    The other major reason is that scarcity finishes over time quite quickly. How long ago were t1 alphas selling for $100? 4 months? Now I’d swap a t1a for 50k gold without a second thought (of course Kabam over charge for everything by an order of magnitude at least, so what you could actually get back when they were sellable was a fairly insulting value of 2k gold)

    Anyway, 4* bots have been scarce but are becoming less scarce. They will continue to become less scarce and new players will get 4* bots at twice or more the rate that Early players did, for far less effort/expense

    A player who joins today may never become the “top” player, but they’ll have a much quicker path to a full 4* team than I did
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    OK but middle players will find less incentive to continue. I've seen a veteran friend selling his account full of r2/r3 4* for a price equivalent of 100$ on some forum.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    edited November 2017
    Trailfire wrote: »
    Anyway, 4* bots have been scarce but are becoming less scarce. They will continue to become less scarce and new players will get 4* bots at twice or more the rate that Early players did, for far less effort/expense

    A player who joins today may never become the “top” player, but they’ll have a much quicker path to a full 4* team than I did

    Untrue. We went from 2 day milestones of 650k+ total to get 1000 shards plus rank reward 4* shards. The new 2 days, 700k in a day will only get you 650 shards. 400k a day will get you 200 shards.

    So the trope you mentioned seems to hold plenty of water. The only people who can possibly get more are the top 7%, but it requires over 100% more effort for 30% more reward. Everyone else gets far less, with many getting nothing when they used to get something. 13%+ gets 0.

    There is no way new players are going to get 4* bots twice as fast when the game is giving them 5 times less shards for two times the effort and time.

    A new player can't get 100k bot chips without opening crystals for dupes. We just lost 33% of the bounty crystals. If they don't get 100k they'll only get what? 10-100 or so shards.

    We have 1000 in spotlight for 100% hard, per month. This was supposed to be something extra, not a replacement or shuffling around of existing rewards from another area. Miike said very clearly they didn't want to take away from people in arena.

    Yeah they can get a handful of extra shards from bumping up with sigs boosts and forging 3*, but we always tell new players not forge, that it's a late game thing, and if they forge then they can't get dupe feature bot chips anyway so it actually makes it harder for them, and they'll either lose something that was very useful for them or they just wasted all their boosts on something just to get shards, which defeats the whole point and makes it a poor, convoluted shard substitute. It's certainly not as valuable and not worth a 33% trade on arena shard resources.

    Then we have some 4* shards in absurd milestones which no one can get because they want to 'future proof' the game instead of actually making it relevant to their current players and updating it when necessary.

    Unless Kabam will say the old 2 day bounty was 'too easy' to get shards then any argument about the new bounty being too easy, or giving too many shards to too many people is completely false.

    We have all the data to compare. The old 2 day bounty is the standard for effort/reward ratio. 8-12% hit 650k in the old arena. 8-12% of the playerbase got 1000 shards. Then the higher percents who got a portion of 1000. 8-12% now gets 400 and higher percents get 0.

    Within a day they dramatically changed 24hr rewards. There's been no adjustments since, for a month. How skilled to get it perfect first go. There's been countless data samples proving the effort to reward is worse than before and nothing about the reality of the rank rewards matches up with Kabams statements about how players were going to be treated in the new arena.

  • Trailfire wrote: »
    First, you only need 3 good bots to compete at top levels of AM, and 5 to compete at top level story type content. But the top players have 12-20 bots that you’d be happy with in AM. Those bots are useless outside arena and raid defense, but they take weeks of effort to rank and forge up

    So, you ONLY need 3 good bots to compete at the top levels of AM? By "good", I assume you not only mean 4*, but a "good" bot that would work well for higher end AMs. And then you ONLY need another 5 "good" bots to complete top Story content. Again, I assume you mean mostly 4*s, and obviously, some bots are better than others.

    So, a player ONLY needs around 8 4* bots to do higher end stuff. Your argument is that this wont matter to the higher end players because they already have 12-15 4*'s. You then suggest, 4* bots are scarce, but they are less scarce now, and becoming less scarce. I would ask - how do you see 4* bots becoming less scarce for new players when they are removing or reducing the ways in which you can earn those shards?

    You also suggest that anything more than the 8 "good" bots you need for AM and Story Quests are just a waste except for base defense. I would disagree. Having 15 4* bots gives you a great advantage in Arenas as well - which there are also LESS 4* arenas now, which means the ones we do have will become even more competitive.

    TBH, I dont really see how a new player joining now will be at a better advantage now than had they started playing 3 months ago. Arguably, if they started earlier, they would have been able to participate in events that offered many more rewards than what is currently being offered out now for the same events. Milestone rewards alone is HUGE.

    According to Kabam, the rate at which people were getting 4* bots and progressing was going a lot faster than what they anticipated - so they have scaled back rewards and such to try and compensate. So, while there might be more stuff for people to do than there was 3 months ago, again, the rewards are currently being scaled back to try and keep (free) players from moving up too fast.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 374
    edited November 2017
    Actually, you don't need 8 good bots to perform well at any mode. You truly just need 3, and if possible, another 2 for the story and spotlight missions if you plan on doing expert (completion is another story). With regards to arena, if you ever hoped to achieve top 10, you need a reality check on that as those players DO spend to ensure their placements. Which leads me to my next point of, like or not, players who pay will always have an advantage over those that don't. This is simply undisputed as if the players who do spend money on the game feel they are still on the same playing field as those that don't, then they won't invest any money into the game as they feel no value in spending.

    However, this doesn't mean there aren't avenues for F2P players in acquiring good items or shards. There are plenty of ways that Kabam has introduced recently, but you do have to grind for them and spend a lot of your time and energy if you really want them. This idea has been put in practice in AM events such as the Spot Light Missions, the one with the 500 T2As, daily valuable items or shards sold in the Raid store, and so on. Obviously, for casual players it will be hard to achieve certain milestones or requirements to get the stuff that are sought after, but that's the trade off between casually investing your time and really getting into the game.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    Trailfire wrote: »
    Guys, the “weak get weaker rich get stronger” trope really doesn’t hold that much water, mainly for two reasons

    First, you only need 3 good bots to compete at top levels of AM, and 5 to compete at top level story type content. But the top players have 12-20 bots that you’d be happy with in AM. Those bots are useless outside arena and raid defense, but they take weeks of effort to rank and forge up



    The other major reason is that scarcity finishes over time quite quickly. How long ago were t1 alphas selling for $100? 4 months? Now I’d swap a t1a for 50k gold without a second thought (of course Kabam over charge for everything by an order of magnitude at least, so what you could actually get back when they were sellable was a fairly insulting value of 2k gold)

    Anyway, 4* bots have been scarce but are becoming less scarce. They will continue to become less scarce and new players will get 4* bots at twice or more the rate that Early players did, for far less effort/expense

    A player who joins today may never become the “top” player, but they’ll have a much quicker path to a full 4* team than I did

    Lol, what was that? Let them eat cake?
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    Put simply, I have the roster to compete at higher end content. I have the roster to earn things under the new economy and I play a lot and hit those milestones. I'm certainly part of the 1% here.

    I also know that there is NO WAY in hell I'd be able to get here again at anywhere near the same rate I did earlier. Earning potential have been nerfed. Earning rewards have been pushed to the high end, be it behind a huge raid chip cost or alliance milestones. At the same time arena milestones are gone and you have to put up scores way beyond beginner levels to start getting the resources required by beginners....

    Look at the other days 500 4star shards for what, 125k raid chips? How many of you did it without spending? I know I did and I imagine most of the people capable of running arenas did as well. This sure as hell wouldn't be the case with a beginner roster. Again, rich getting richer while the new get screwed. Not a good approach to take if you want to see the game survive.

    I really think a lot of players here have simply forgotten how easy the game has become for them. Try to look at the game through the lens of someone who didn't start earlier and you'll see just how damaging a lot of Kabam's recent changes have truly been.
  • DirculesDircules Posts: 509
    Stitch626 wrote: »
    Trailfire wrote: »
    First, you only need 3 good bots to compete at top levels of AM, and 5 to compete at top level story type content. But the top players have 12-20 bots that you’d be happy with in AM. Those bots are useless outside arena and raid defense, but they take weeks of effort to rank and forge up

    So, you ONLY need 3 good bots to compete at the top levels of AM? By "good", I assume you not only mean 4*, ..
    No.

    4/40 3-star bots work just fine at least until 70s, maybe even 80s of AM if you get good at not getting hit. They’re also enough to get completion on expert spotlight. And they’re strong enough to complete all story missions out today.

    You may have to get better at the game though, but that’s also part of progression. Arenas are a fantastic way to practice fighting skill and play with bots you’d otherwise not use. Regardless of the rewards of said arena.
  • Serapth wrote: »
    Look at the other days 500 4star shards for what, 125k raid chips? How many of you did it without spending?

    I did ut with less than the energon I bought with the same raid chips a day or two earlier. Not sure how that's relevant...
    Serapth wrote: »
    I know I did and I imagine most of the people capable of running arenas did as well. This sure as hell wouldn't be the case with a beginner roster.

    Why do people be keep be bringing up beginner access to 4*s? Start small. Suck it up. Most of us did and we didn't have generous spotlight rewards to ease the pain. This whining about beginners is getting tired and old. You're not supposed to place in the top 10% if you're a beginner.
  • Dircules wrote: »
    4/40 3-star bots work just fine at least until 70s, maybe even 80s of AM if you get good at not getting hit. They’re also enough to get completion on expert spotlight. And they’re strong enough to complete all story missions out today.

    That's an excellent point that people gloss over. I purposely didn't even bring my 4*s until R3 because my 3* were better.

    I wonder how many of the people complaining about lack of access even bother forging their 1* and 2* bots vs hoarding them all to I mprove their profile rating.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    KingOfPain wrote: »
    Serapth wrote: »
    Look at the other days 500 4star shards for what, 125k raid chips? How many of you did it without spending?

    I did ut with less than the energon I bought with the same raid chips a day or two earlier. Not sure how that's relevant...
    Serapth wrote: »
    I know I did and I imagine most of the people capable of running arenas did as well. This sure as hell wouldn't be the case with a beginner roster.

    Why do people be keep be bringing up beginner access to 4*s? Start small. Suck it up. Most of us did and we didn't have generous spotlight rewards to ease the pain. This whining about beginners is getting tired and old. You're not supposed to place in the top 10% if you're a beginner.

    Because the game removed freaking milestones, so the only way to get rewards is...

    Drumroll please....

    To finish high.

    Tone deaf.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    KingOfPain wrote: »
    Dircules wrote: »
    4/40 3-star bots work just fine at least until 70s, maybe even 80s of AM if you get good at not getting hit. They’re also enough to get completion on expert spotlight. And they’re strong enough to complete all story missions out today.

    That's an excellent point that people gloss over. I purposely didn't even bring my 4*s until R3 because my 3* were better.

    I wonder how many of the people complaining about lack of access even bother forging their 1* and 2* bots vs hoarding them all to I mprove their profile rating.

    What 1 stars?

    Oh you mean the ones that you and I built our rosters using but again... Drum roll please....

    They removed access to with milestones.

    Noticing a trend yet?
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 374
    That's a load of ****, the amount of pbc in the game is abundant with the addition of daily class events, as well as rewards in the easy or medium spot light missions. Did you also forget the calendars that not only give shards but a veriety if other prizes?

    Drum roll.....oh yeah there's no need for one because you keep spitting the same thing over and over when people have pointed out otherwise.

    A beginner is suppose to work for the content, not be given free **** for no effort. That's the nature of the game, and it always has been.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    that1guy wrote: »
    That's a load of ****, the amount of pbc in the game is abundant with the addition of daily class events, as well as rewards in the easy or medium spot light missions. Did you also forget the calendars that not only give shards but a veriety if other prizes?

    Drum roll.....oh yeah there's no need for one because you keep spitting the same thing over and over when people have pointed out otherwise.

    A beginner is suppose to work for the content, not be given free **** for no effort. That's the nature of the game, and it always has been.

    Oh, the calendars that new people don't get? Clueless.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 374
    edited November 2017
    Is that the only argument you got? Do you have the hard data to prove it doesn't work for all new people?

    Yeah, I'm clueless lol.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    Add to the point, the majority of new players aren't going to complain, they will just leave a bad review and uninstall.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 374
    edited November 2017
    If you have paid attention to any of the posts I've made in this thread, you would realise that I too am against how rewards in the current arena are spread out with the absence of milestones which would be a turn off for not just new players, but for old players that play casually.

    But I have also pointed out post after post that rewards are more abundant in other game modes if players are active in obtaining them. I barely play the game and I get atleast 5 pbc's per week. Yet you still bring up the same argument as if what I say is irrelevant or largely ignored. Forum posts do not constitute as hard proof that all new players do not get calendar rewards. Just because there is a kneejerk reaction by certain posters to a change, it does not mean it's validating proof that it's true. Until we have a complete overview of the data and trends, you are making assumptions.

    The rewards, the content, the progression is there. People just have to play the freaking game, get in the grind, and naturally they will obtain the high tier rewards. Is that so hard to understand?
  • MallowmanMallowman Posts: 125
    edited November 2017
    @that1guy
    I place top ten without spending one energon in arenas. As others have said it’s all about having a good roster to rotate through.

    What most have said and I do agree, to the person starting out, the removal of milestones on arena are a huge disadvantage.

    I got my roster by grinding top 1-2% and getting 1k shards from rewards as well as from crystal bounty milestones. I also made an effort to get a new 3* every week from the 3* arena. After about the time the ratchet featured arena came about I’ve been top 5 whenever I use my roster.


    It’s not about free stuff as much as requiring new players to do more to catch up to the old dogs.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    edited November 2017
    I'm worried about not only new players but the majority of mid level players, both casual and daily players and even high level players.

    Only the top 5-7% get 4* shards at a decent rate 650. 8-12% get 200 shards.

    Is 8-12% not a high level? They used to get 1 full 4* a month from arena, now they get 2/5, not even half a 4*. That is massive. Even up to 20% would get more than the double the 200 that 8-12% gets, now they get 0.

    The nerf is so huge to these brackets, why would they want to keep playing after getting shafted so hard. These brackes are not new players.

    We've just alienated 93% of the player base because their arena rewards have been nerfed first by 60% with rank changes and then a further 33% on top of that by removing a bounty arena.

    Meanwhile the 7% get 30% more rewards (but requiring double the amount of effort/points) than the old system, so they're cheering.

    Saying the 'new player' rewards moved to other areas is double dipping because the top 7% also get those rewards. So a huge gap is being created in the progression curve.

    Further proving this point; the feature bot conversion rate, 500:1.

    The only way to get well beyond 100k is opening crystals for dupes. The game doesn't offer it. I've mapped all the ways to earn chips, search for my guide.

    If I go for top 10% for 14 days, half the month, in arena I get around 45k chips. If I don't get to 100k I get 100 4* shards for all that effort. What the? Frankly, that's incredibly insulting. Why would I even bother wasting my time participating in a month long event for that. If I already have 100k there's now no reason to keep playing the game. If I'm playing so much the get near 100k without dupes then getting another 3* is largely irrelevant to where I'm at in the game. In short, they get no benefit from a month long, game-wide promotion designed to increase participation and spending.

    Even diff 40 only gives 14k chips, compared to 8k at diff 15. So it's all about slamming raids doing like 12 a day if you want to avoid needing dupes. Just to get 100k. So 500:1 ratio is just absurd. It's been balanced based off of the people who opened a bunch of crystals to get well over 100k.
  • @Terminal

    Here, here. I think if they would just add back the previous milestones it would put this game in a good place for the mid and new players. This would be a for sure 2 4* bots per month if they get the 630k in bot crystal arena.
Sign In or Register to comment.