THE OFFICIAL BOT BALANCING/REPAIR SUGGESTION THREAD

I figured this would help clean up all the separate threads running around out there and put them all in one neat and tidy place where they can be accessed easily.

The way this will work is as suggestions are posted within this thread, a mod or myself will then add the bots and the proposed changes into the top post. If the suggestions are taken up by the dev team and the bot is balanced or repaired, they will be struck from the list; otherwise the bot and the proposed rebalance/repair will remain in the list.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS THE SUGGESTION THREAD AND NOT THE ARGUMENT/DEBATE THREAD. Let people have their say here and keep the arguments of why you think their suggestion is terrible and will destroy the game and probably the known universe in another thread.

Sound good? Here is a proposed format below, but I"m certainly open to more helpful formats, as I realize there could be people posting different suggestions for the same bot. This is more just to get the ball rolling. A more friendly formatting can happen later.


PROPOSED REBALANCES

GRIMLOCK

Issues:
1. Signature does not immediately convert damaging debuffs or convert them fast enough.

Reason for proposed change:
1. While MV1 sees immediate benefits from converting bleed to health, Grimlock does not get any immediate benefit. The damaging debuffs don't convert fast enough to melee buffs and the buffs only last a few seconds before needing to be refreshed by a heavy attack. Keeping these buffs refreshed while not taking damage or losing your fighting rhythm is hard enough already, but the delay in converting damage debuffs makes Grimlock unusable because you're punishing the player for trying to use the bots signature ability, something they most likely paid for to gain in the first place.

Proposed change:
1. Make the debuffs convert immediately, the same way he has a small chance to immediately convert basic attacks. This will not make Grimlock overpowered because he is still taking damage from the hit that caused the debuff and if the player is really interested in keeping those earned melee buffs, they're still going to have to convert to alt-mode to keep them, which is a very risky proposal, especially at higher AI difficulty levels.



GALVATRON

Issue:
1. Time. Galvatron does not have enough time to use his dark energy charges.

Reason for proposed change:
1. Galvatron does not have enough time to use his dark charges because they expire too quickly in two ways:

a. From trying to start and land a combo prior to using a special
b. The time it takes a special's animation to complete burns the clock up on timer.

Proposed changes:

1. Add more time to the clock before his dark energy charges.
2. In addition to blocking at ranged distance, Galvatron should earn 2 dark energy charges per hit taken, both melee and ranged whether he is blocking or not. These 2 charges per hit could be permanently added to the dark energy stack (ex. Galvatron gets hit 3 times so he has 6 permanent charges) until consumed, whereupon the permanent charges are spent and the stack would start back at zero. This might make Galvatron a little more manageable, play-wise and make him more competitive with other demo bots.



PROPOSED REPAIRS/FIXES/BUGS

ULTRA MAGNUS

Issues:
1. Wording on Signature is not clear, in terms of which game modes (Raid, Arena, Special, Story) he gains attack and physical resistance bonuses from opponents still alive
2. 100% chance to Nullify an Attack or Melee Buff is NOT 100%.


RAMJET

Issues:
1. Ramjet's SP2 is not always connecting after successful combos.
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Comments

  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 526
    edited November 2017
    I think Grimlock is fine as he is now personally, allows bots like Galvatron, Starscream and to a lesser extent Arcee a way around him. I do agree with the proposed changes on Galvatron and Ultra Magnus though, extremely annoyed to see that 100% nullify when a Motormaster has just run me over with 4 melee buffs that utterly refused to nullify.
    Only other change I can think of is
    that Ratchet still has no way to reliably counter/survive demo specials. His emergency repair has a pitiful activation rate for such a conditional signature ability, and Ironhide, Mixmaster, and Megatron can all KO him from half health before it can undo the damage anyways.
    A solution would be to keep the low activation rate, but move Emergency Repair down to merge with Self Diagnostics, and give him a new signature that does something like cut the opponent's special damage by a certain percent per stack of shock, and shocks last a little longer.
    Sorry, forgot to format it and now have less than a minute to edit.
  • TechTech Posts: 15
    I think Grinlock is fine also...

    UM and Galvatron are both a bit weak. I think Galvatron needs his damage buffed accross the board and the dark burn should just be a bonus on top of it.
  • Galvatrons dark energy loss DOES freeze on special activation. His 6 second counter for a full charge does not. I am not saying that it wouldn't be great for the 30 charge counter to not be frozen, but what I am STILL saying is that you aren't using Galvatron right probably. Block through the specials you once kited, this gets you (depending on the special animation length) 10 to max charge (with a frozen counter if not full) and a free hit. Even an unfull charge with free hits massively outperforms trying to force a home run 30 charge hit that isn't happening. If you are doing this, no wonder you think he's bad.... but you haven't played him correctly yet. Much of a buff would only make him OP honestly.... would make for an auto win as soon as the enemy launched it's first special.
  • So far, the first 3 comments have totally ignored the disclaimer made in the original post, lol. It's almost as if people just have to argue on the internet or they can't go about their day properly.

    It's your right to post what you want, I'm not gonna try and stop you, but please try to respect the initial intent of this thread. If there's a bot you think needs some rebalancing or repair, then post it. Otherwise, take the arguments and opinions to a different thread where they can be discussed there.

  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 526
    edited November 2017
    With all due respect, your disclaimer (at least as you're interpreting it) defeats the purpose of this thread We're giving you balancing opinions, just as you asked, but part of balance is knowing when to leave something alone. Thus my and Tech's comments on Grimlock.
  • The purpose of the thread is to post bots you think need rebalancing and/or repairs. It's not a "I don't think this bot needs to be on this list" thread, which is what the comments on here have all been.

    Like I said, if you don't think a bot needs to be included here, start another thread with the title, "Why I don't think Grimlock needs to be rebalanced" or whatever bot you think. I can edit the original post to offer more clarification if you thought it wasn't clear enough. But this really is more just a place to take all the suggestions posted on the forum and condense them into one thread. It's not meant to be a place for debating; more of a place for the moderators to take information to the development team.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,144
    Every bot could be improved when you input 10000 different points of view?

    If it’s not up for discussion then why post on a forum instead of pm a mod or send ticket
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 711
    I agree with Jon, a forum is designed for discussion, that's kind of the whole point.

    Make a google doc or something if you want to record a list of just your opinions.

    Posts can't be edited after 15 mins anyway so you can't update your post, and calling it official is kind of impersonating a mod and a bit misleading.

    This is not an offical list or thread, this is your opinion about balancing. By disagreeing with you, they're actually posting their own suggestion for balancing, which is actually what you asked for.
  • @Terminal Is this thread somehow taking up the whole forum? Is it preventing the creation of other discussion threads where healthy debate on bot strength and weakness can be discussed?

    My only intent in creating this thread was to seriously try and help by putting all the bot balancing and repair proposals into one easy to access place.

    There are literally an infinite number of threads that can be created on this forum for debating anything and everything involving this game, so it's just baffling to me why people are not content to do that, but instead clutter up a thread that kindly asked for that very thing not to happen.

    Is it an "OFFICIAL" Kabam thread? Of course not. We all know what an official Kabam thread looks like by now and how they get pinned to the top of the board. Was this a thread just for my opinions? Again, no. I only had one opinion on here, the rest were ideas proposed by other posters that I posted in here; again, to try and be helpful by having only one "official" thread where everyone could go to post a proposed change without having to worry about the debate club showing up. We see how that worked out though, lol.

    This has seriously become laughable to try and further explain, so I'll give up.

    Seriously, @Kabam Miike , @Kabam Tenebrous , @Kabam Vydious just delete this thread at this point. I see now it was obviously a terrible idea.





  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 711
    If it's not official then don't put it in the title. From a list of title threads before clicking inside, it's misleading.

    Your first post is written with authority saying you or a mod will edit and update your post. This implies you have some kind of relationship and have organised with them to do that. Also, for anyone familiar with the forums, they know editing is impossible for regular members after 15 minutes, so for you to say you will edit yourself, suggests you have some kind of power or authority.

    Your frustration is coming from trying to use something for a purpose other than what it was intended for.

    Yes, an infinite number of threads can be created to discuss things, that's the purpose of a forum. It should not be surprising that users have responded exactly how a forum is meant to be used.

    If you want a list and ignore people's opinions who think something doesn't need balancing, then simply make 'Synthwave's list of proposed changes' as a google doc or something and link it on the forums. Then you can curate the responses and add the ones that fit your world view.

    I think you're just upset that people don't agree with your idea about what needs balancing.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,118
    When Terminal agrees with Jon, you know you dun messed up gud!

    "Post your opinions here as long as they don't disagree with my opinions."

    Lol.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,118
    edited November 2017
    Let's play this game, since I can't disagree to your grimlock buff and only add to it...

    In addition to converting debuffs instantaneously, Grimlock also needs unstoppable in order to get those attacks in immediately, before they expire (since throwing a heavy attack is a completely unreasonable and excessively difficult mechanic to refresh them).

    This way, you can dash straight into bots like Ironhide, since you know you'll convert his heavy attack into a melee buff and unstoppable buff without any delay, and simply continue your charge straight into his face.

    It's efficient.

    And since you can't disagree with me according to the rules of this thread... If you don't like it, too bad, no erasies.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 159
    edited November 2017
    *sigh* I wanted the in b4 the lock gif but cba
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 443
    PROPOSED REBALANCE

    BLUDGEON

    Issues:
    - Pure basic character, nothing special about him
    - Rarely triggers bleed

    Reasons for proposed changes:
    Bludgeon is a boring character to play as, even with his signatue ability, all he has are bleed, armor(which is kinda useless) and stun. The only good thing about him is his bleed, which deals really high damage but it occurs only once or twice every 20 seconds and his powerful signature ability, I think Bludgeon deserves more cool perks than what he's having at the moment

    Proposed changes:
    - Make his bleed GUARANTEED, but only on special attacks, you can reduce it down to 60%-70% damage
    - His signature ability is powerful but lame at the same time, scrap it! Change his signature ability back like in the beta version
    - He needs just 1 more untility ability... maybe some sort of Anti-evade, like this:
    Ferocity: Opponents suffering from any type of debuff triggers 20% fewer evades. Additionally, everytime they evade Bludgeon's attack, he gains an Unblockable buff, making his next special attack unblockable
  • I love Bludgeon but agree that he comes off as bland when compared to other warriors.
  • Drake6401Drake6401 Posts: 282
    edited December 2017
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    SHOCKWAVE
    (If this comment appears twice, I apologize. the first one deleted itself and may restore over time.)

    Shockwave has always felt half finished to me. His abilities are often ignored in battle as they're high maintenance and debatable reward. I came up with a few general upgrades he could use and 2 separate ability sets that would add to his current set to liven up his gameplay. Whether or not these traits are too much, it would take a test run which I obviously can't do.

    General buffs.
    Passive +15% Block proficiency
    Blocked shots generate a shock charge lasting for 8 seconds.
    Special 2 generates 3 charges lasting 10 seconds.
    Special 1 applies shock for 30~48% attack per charge
    Special 3 applies shock for 38~55% attack per charge

    Addictions. New traits and abilities. All ideas are not meant to exist on Shockwave. Each number is an individual idea and .

    1. Shot speed. (Ability: Module Melter)
    Passive: Increased projectile speed by 20~30%
    With charges. 22~35% projectile speed per shock charge held by Shockwave.

    (Module Melter: Shockwave's built charges last 2~4.5 seconds longer, and shock debuffs inflict more damage of 25~45% of the original amount.

    This method is to enhance Shockwave's ranged gameplay by increasing the speed of his shots. This in turn helps him land the heavy attacks required to apply his shock debuff onto the enemy. This behavior is similar to Waspinator, but instead of a permanent buff at half HP, Shcokwave requires charges that either vanish or are used up.



    2. Shock energy (Ability: Undo)
    On critical hits: 100% chance to apply a shock debuff for 17~28% attack over 8~12 seconds.
    Once enemy has 4 shock debuffs in one time: Shockwave gains a Power Gain buff for 15~25% of his power meter over 3 seconds. Shock debuffs that triggered a buff no longer apply to the stack count for the next one.

    (Undo) Same effects only 20~40% chance to activate. Technically buffed from the enhanced energy method as well.

    Though not very harmful, these debuffs make Shockwave have two unique motives depending on his attack distance. Ranged is used for damage while up close melee builds energy at an increased rate, making special attacks Shockwave's focus point. This however would be heavily countered by Grimlock and the Exo-Filter's Purification would never let him reach 4 charges efficiently.
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 443
    edited December 2017
    PROPOSED REBALANCE
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    ULTRA MAGNUS

    Ultra Magnus is a pretty "meh" bot to me, his abilities are kinda boring, it's not hard to fight him, you can combine ranged and melee attacks to counter his resistance buffs. The second bad thing about him is his ranged attacks, they don't always nullify opponent's buff and all the nullifiable buffs are pure basic, they're not too dangerous to get nullfied. So here are my ideas to improve this beloved autobot

    PASSIVE: MAGNUS ARMOR
    - Magnus armor provides 25-40% physical resistance or 30-45% energy resistance. Dash back and hold block for 1.5 seconds to change the type of resistance
    - Caps damage from SP3 attacks to 25-20% Ultra Magnus' health(this will be useful against Demo bots)
    - 100% chance to survive a lethal attack, gaining a Damage immunity shield for 6-8 seconds

    PASSIVE:
    - Military training provides 60% reduced stun duration everytime he gets stunned(will be useful against Ironhide). This can go up to 80% against Brawler opponents

    Ranged attacks:
    - 100% chance to nullify 1 offensive buff of ANY kind (special damage buff, crit rate/damage buff,...etc)(again, he must be able to survive the massive damage of Demo bots)

    Special attacks:
    - 100% armor penetration (35% chance)
    - Sp1: Magnus hammer converts armor buffs into armor break
    - Sp2: Shoulder missiles apply a 40% armor break for 7 seconds
    - Sp3: Inflicts burn

    Keep his signature ability
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,118
    edited December 2017
    Lol, this thread is alive.

    In all honesty... While some of the buffs to UM make sense, others do not. Demos have an inherent advantage to tactician bots, and half the buffs you are suggesting undermine it.

    The type of damage mitigation you suggest belongs on tech bots. The Sp3 limitation in particular is similar to Mirage's shield.



  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,144
    Ultimately um nullify needs to be more effective and he needs tweak to armor break like permanent break upon using special2 or 3
  • Simple but effective nerf ideas.

    Every class has a dynamo and that individual causes trouble in the system because everyone expects each new bot to live up to the top bot's impossible standards. This is most common with demo bots, as all of them are compelled to meet ends with what Ironhide can do. I compiled a few ideas to realistically bring these overpowered bots down to size without destroying what makes them enjoyable in the first place.

    IRONHIDE
    70% less energy received when taking damage.

    Plain and simple but it works. By reducing ironhide energy income through income damage, you remove his room for error. Ironhide keeps his strength but now must perform well in order to obtain his special attacks efficiently. If the player fails to land hits, then they will go down very quickly and not gain his instant kill S3 as a wild card. This means Ironhide MUST do well to fight well.

    Though this isn't enough to dethrone him in player hands, it does level him out when fighting against him quite a bit. You would no longer have to coax out 4 S1s or two S2 attacks just to avoid get of shot but his S3 attack. I considered reductions to his crit rate or damage output, but there's a very thin line between Ironhode going overpowered to under-powered and no fun to use. Taking away his massive special damage would ruin what makes him special. Forcing him into a slower method of gaining that energy on the other hand might just do it.

    MEGATRON MV2
    20% attack buff after missing with heavy attacks instead of 40.

    Not much change, I just think a 40% attack buff for 10 seconds is a a big reward for screwing up. This is alosoa little spite from my experience when fight Megatrons mounted with Laser Guidance. If you've even been tapped once by his bullets, you'll agree.

    PROWL
    Make S2 realistically dodgable.

    Again, plain and simple. It just does way too much damage to be unavoidable. Even blocking takes some serious damage meaning you have to constantly coax out S1 attacks throughout the fight. If he gets it with a Super Conductor 2000, then you might as well just lay down and die right there.

    BUMBLEBEE MV1
    Nerf his evasion buff delay to it's previous form!

    Seriously, I can't even get 3 punches in before he's cycled through his phases then instantly dodges away. It's way too fast now. Bee was already the Motormaster's sidekick in playground bullying, he didn't need a buff in evasion.

    MIRAGE
    20 second shield recovery delay instead of 15
    Special attack buffs only apply if successful, or reduce energy income.

    Back to more serious work, Mirage is the top tech bot and actually feels like two separate bots mashed into one. He does SO much in battle. While most bots are either offensive or defensive, Mirage gets the best of both. He can burn energy, stun lock, armor pierce, debuff attack, evade range, gain damage by just avoiding harm, build massive amounts of energy, and drastically decrease special attack damage. That should be spread out across two bots, not crammed onto one.

    Though his lack of damage output is the clear draw back to this guy, it's not that much compared to other tech. The increased delay on his shield would allow his enemy to at least get in 1 every 2 special 1s at full damage. Similar to Ironhide, Mirage should have have less flaw forgiveness. Only allowing the buffs of his special to occur is he lands the attack would balance out his cycle. This change wouldn't ruin Mirage, but it would once again make messing up less forgiving.
  • SIDESWIPE, MIXMASTER, ARCEE, SHOCKWAVE
    They suck
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,144
    Let’s improve bots not take stuff away and make everything pillow handed marshmallow men
  • I'd just be happy if shockwave got a buff....
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 711
    edited December 2017
    the balancing I'd like to see is to synergies, there's so much potential. Synergies could be a huge thing that actually makes people dig deep in to their rosters, doing different combos. New Megatron is a step in the right direction. Galvatron synergy is sad and seems incomplete.
  • Terminal wrote: »
    the balancing I'd like to see is to synergies, there's so much potential. Synergies could be a huge thing that actually makes people dig deep in to their rosters, doing different combos. New Megatron is a step in the right direction. Galvatron synergy is sad and seems incomplete.

    Galv missed the mark on a lot of things.
  • I will stick up for galv and ultra. Their synergy together is really good and makes sense to me (+8 attack!). Ultra is my go to bot 4* 4/5, a tank with firepower. Galvs dark burn takes chunks of energy away if played correctly.
  • Dark Burn helps but it doesn't proc often enough for it to be super helpful.
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 443
    SIDESWIPE, MIXMASTER, ARCEE, SHOCKWAVE
    They suck

    Sideswipe is quite underrated, all he needs is a little stat buff, increase his damage output and health. He's a quite annoying bot to fight against in my opinion, with decent power gain and frequent evasion buffs, maybe Kabam can increase his evasion chance

    Mixmaster is another underrated bot, he deals massive damage if you can stack those special damage buffs

    Arcee just needs more health, she becomes a monster if duped
  • kranderskranders Posts: 190
    Terminal wrote: »
    the balancing I'd like to see is to synergies, there's so much potential. Synergies could be a huge thing that actually makes people dig deep in to their rosters, doing different combos. New Megatron is a step in the right direction. Galvatron synergy is sad and seems incomplete.

    Some new synergies are getting better and more interesting like G1 Megatron or even Starscream and Ramjet but old synergies can be pretty bad and bland. Old synergies need some updates and really need some added like MM.

    There would be so much potential if they really dug into TFs.
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