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THE OFFICIAL BOT BALANCING/REPAIR SUGGESTION THREAD

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  • kranderskranders Posts: 479
    Seeing some of the suggestions are funny, like Mirage.

    There are so many good new mechanics that a few bots are definitely in need.

    Starscream - One of the weakest bots in the game unless the enemy has a lot of buffs. Personally I like ranged bots and am fine with him remaining a ranged glass cannon but his damage isn't there. SP1 is weak and the enemy still evades ranged a lot so the buff is pretty useless. Buff should be 100% and should be something like Mirage/Drift where the buff remains until hit, keeps him ranged focused. Could also add something to the buff like nullifies even when ranged are blocked. SP2 is rather pointless when he nullifies all armor buffs but could increase the debuff chance. I don't mind the six nullifies on SP3 however it is useless without the nullify. Should go back to applying burn or giving him a buff like 100% for his heavy to burn... something.

    Hound - Yeah he's complicated but still needs some work. Ammo switch needs to be faster which would make him much better. His sig is short, can't even really get it to apply to s1, maybe if it locked in during special. I would not increase his crit rate but increase the chance to apply his heavy debuff. I go through so many fights barely applying a burn outside s1. I don't think he needs a lot of work but just a few tweaks to make him smoother.

    Wasp - I don't think he needs much but maybe the acid on heavy would be something. Would not touch his specials.

    Grimlock - The only thing I think he needs is a natural armor or perhaps add armor to his melee buff, maybe 5% per buff. He has great potential for damage but for a brawler his defense is weak. He doesn't need much but he is starting to get outclassed.

    Soundwave - I've said before he's started to age poorly. His sig is fine but blocking still takes too much damage, basically for all bots trying to play high level/Master it's hard to really use those focused on blocking. I've also said his s1 is almost useless. I think the drain/lock should be swapped with s3 and/or made 100%. He's completely outclassed by Shockwave and Blaster. Make Soundwave a balance between power gain/control with s1.

  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 994
    kranders wrote: »
    Seeing some of the suggestions are funny, like Mirage.

    There are so many good new mechanics that a few bots are definitely in need.

    Starscream - One of the weakest bots in the game unless the enemy has a lot of buffs. Personally I like ranged bots and am fine with him remaining a ranged glass cannon but his damage isn't there. SP1 is weak and the enemy still evades ranged a lot so the buff is pretty useless. Buff should be 100% and should be something like Mirage/Drift where the buff remains until hit, keeps him ranged focused. Could also add something to the buff like nullifies even when ranged are blocked. SP2 is rather pointless when he nullifies all armor buffs but could increase the debuff chance. I don't mind the six nullifies on SP3 however it is useless without the nullify. Should go back to applying burn or giving him a buff like 100% for his heavy to burn... something.

    Hound - Yeah he's complicated but still needs some work. Ammo switch needs to be faster which would make him much better. His sig is short, can't even really get it to apply to s1, maybe if it locked in during special. I would not increase his crit rate but increase the chance to apply his heavy debuff. I go through so many fights barely applying a burn outside s1. I don't think he needs a lot of work but just a few tweaks to make him smoother.

    Wasp - I don't think he needs much but maybe the acid on heavy would be something. Would not touch his specials.

    Grimlock - The only thing I think he needs is a natural armor or perhaps add armor to his melee buff, maybe 5% per buff. He has great potential for damage but for a brawler his defense is weak. He doesn't need much but he is starting to get outclassed.

    Soundwave - I've said before he's started to age poorly. His sig is fine but blocking still takes too much damage, basically for all bots trying to play high level/Master it's hard to really use those focused on blocking. I've also said his s1 is almost useless. I think the drain/lock should be swapped with s3 and/or made 100%. He's completely outclassed by Shockwave and Blaster. Make Soundwave a balance between power gain/control with s1.

    Soundwave's SP1 is useless?? Are you kidding me, a high chance to stun and/or power leak is useless to you?? That's my favourite Soundwave SP, I'm actually disappointed when I don't get to use it. If any Soundwave special is useless, for me, it's his SP3...doesn't really seem to do much damage.
  • VavatronVavatron Posts: 843
    Arcee - SP 1 needs 100% chance of Bleed.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited May 2018
    Red_Eyes wrote: »
    kranders wrote: »
    Seeing some of the suggestions are funny, like Mirage.

    There are so many good new mechanics that a few bots are definitely in need.

    Starscream - One of the weakest bots in the game unless the enemy has a lot of buffs. Personally I like ranged bots and am fine with him remaining a ranged glass cannon but his damage isn't there. SP1 is weak and the enemy still evades ranged a lot so the buff is pretty useless. Buff should be 100% and should be something like Mirage/Drift where the buff remains until hit, keeps him ranged focused. Could also add something to the buff like nullifies even when ranged are blocked. SP2 is rather pointless when he nullifies all armor buffs but could increase the debuff chance. I don't mind the six nullifies on SP3 however it is useless without the nullify. Should go back to applying burn or giving him a buff like 100% for his heavy to burn... something.

    Hound - Yeah he's complicated but still needs some work. Ammo switch needs to be faster which would make him much better. His sig is short, can't even really get it to apply to s1, maybe if it locked in during special. I would not increase his crit rate but increase the chance to apply his heavy debuff. I go through so many fights barely applying a burn outside s1. I don't think he needs a lot of work but just a few tweaks to make him smoother.

    Wasp - I don't think he needs much but maybe the acid on heavy would be something. Would not touch his specials.

    Grimlock - The only thing I think he needs is a natural armor or perhaps add armor to his melee buff, maybe 5% per buff. He has great potential for damage but for a brawler his defense is weak. He doesn't need much but he is starting to get outclassed.

    Soundwave - I've said before he's started to age poorly. His sig is fine but blocking still takes too much damage, basically for all bots trying to play high level/Master it's hard to really use those focused on blocking. I've also said his s1 is almost useless. I think the drain/lock should be swapped with s3 and/or made 100%. He's completely outclassed by Shockwave and Blaster. Make Soundwave a balance between power gain/control with s1.

    Soundwave's SP1 is useless?? Are you kidding me, a high chance to stun and/or power leak is useless to you?? That's my favourite Soundwave SP, I'm actually disappointed when I don't get to use it. If any Soundwave special is useless, for me, it's his SP3...doesn't really seem to do much damage.


    Both his sp1 and sp3 are terrible.

    Sp1 stun and power leak do not last very long or have any real impact. All the stun does is maybe allow you to get another heavy attack in to begin power gaining again. The power leak is underpowered. They also don't trigger nearly enough.

    Compare to the length of stun Bludgeon gets on his specials, or the power lock/drain Rhinox gets from a simple heavy attack.

    Sp3 is awful in every possible way. Low damage and debuffs are inconsequential unless you are near death anyway. But, the reason it sucks is because you don't have to do anything to get there... If you buff his s3 he will become unbalanced. The buff has to go to sp1 because it can be blocked or dodged. S3 buff results in auto damage spamming and it will suck when playing AGAINST the AI.

    Soundwave had to be kept in check when first released because he had a skill set and ease of use ahead of his time. Now that the game has evolved, he needs to have the kid gloves removed.

    I knew he would not keep pace with the meta from his release, which is why I never ranked him. Nobody believed me at the time, and called me crazy.

    Remember... When suggesting a buff, think about the repercussions and difficulty playing against the AI, and not just how much HULK SMASH you want to do as a player on offense.

    That's why I laugh at some of the suggestions put forth by some of you guys... They are not well thought out, and game breaking in many cases for this exact reason.
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 2,949
    mb65gpkecqjz.png
    Please make his power leak & lock abilities guaranteed. Remove the SP1&3 stun completely if needed, SP1's power leak can be changed into power leech, both draining the opponent's power over time while giving SW power
    His SP2 sucks butt, it hits hard like every single SP2, and applies a weak butt shock, you should make the shock stronger (like 120% damage over 6 seconds) or change the shock into instant 60% power drain (power drain is the BEST type of power control)
    If you want to keep his SP3's dmg the same because "His powur gen iz tooo gr8" then make the power lock last longer
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    edited May 2018
    kranders wrote: »
    Seeing some of the suggestions are funny, like Mirage.

    There are so many good new mechanics that a few bots are definitely in need.

    Starscream - One of the weakest bots in the game unless the enemy has a lot of buffs. Personally I like ranged bots and am fine with him remaining a ranged glass cannon but his damage isn't there. SP1 is weak and the enemy still evades ranged a lot so the buff is pretty useless. Buff should be 100% and should be something like Mirage/Drift where the buff remains until hit, keeps him ranged focused. Could also add something to the buff like nullifies even when ranged are blocked. SP2 is rather pointless when he nullifies all armor buffs but could increase the debuff chance. I don't mind the six nullifies on SP3 however it is useless without the nullify. Should go back to applying burn or giving him a buff like 100% for his heavy to burn... something.

    Hound - Yeah he's complicated but still needs some work. Ammo switch needs to be faster which would make him much better. His sig is short, can't even really get it to apply to s1, maybe if it locked in during special. I would not increase his crit rate but increase the chance to apply his heavy debuff. I go through so many fights barely applying a burn outside s1. I don't think he needs a lot of work but just a few tweaks to make him smoother.

    Wasp - I don't think he needs much but maybe the acid on heavy would be something. Would not touch his specials.

    Grimlock - The only thing I think he needs is a natural armor or perhaps add armor to his melee buff, maybe 5% per buff. He has great potential for damage but for a brawler his defense is weak. He doesn't need much but he is starting to get outclassed.

    Soundwave - I've said before he's started to age poorly. His sig is fine but blocking still takes too much damage, basically for all bots trying to play high level/Master it's hard to really use those focused on blocking. I've also said his s1 is almost useless. I think the drain/lock should be swapped with s3 and/or made 100%. He's completely outclassed by Shockwave and Blaster. Make Soundwave a balance between power gain/control with s1.


    I like the Drift idea being applied to Starscream in some fashion. I still feel strongly though about tying his melee component into nullifies though, so he's not strictly a range-dependent bot. Ranged hybrids like Hot Rod and Arcee are great examples of how well a balanced range/melee can work; they just need to find that balance with Starscream because right now he gains no benefits from using any kind of melee attack other than just your basic power gain from hitting a guy. But I do agree about his specials needing tweaking too. They've got a lot of work to do with him so he can be used against higher level AI opponents. Often times there's just simply nothing to nullify when facing another bot so adding a low-level DoT effect like shock to his sp1 and burn to his sp3 would also be good possibilities too.

    In terms of Wasp and Hound, I just know that with most range-dependent bots the issue always becomes about time, in that there's just not enough of it. Range-dependent bots almost always have range-based specials, but in order to use those specials for maximum effect, the dev team usually puts in some kind of trigger that has to happen first (Galvatron's dark charges, Hounds crit res. debuff, Wasp's res. debuffs, Shockwave's shock charges, Hot Rod's decelerate, etc). Then, on top of all that, they usually have to race against a timer to get a melee combo in so they can trigger the special because we all know that's pretty much they only way you're going to successfully connect with any special. But in the case of Galvatron the timing issue was his dark energy charges. The problem was that they were taking too long to charge and the timer wasn't locking during his sp2 animation. The dev team saw that and fixed it and now he's pretty good.

    The same issue of timing applies to Hound and Waspinator. Hound's ammo changes take too long and his crit resistance debuff is both erratic in terms of triggering and when it does, it doesn't last long enough to get the needed obligatory melee combo + special in before the timer expires. Waspinator's timer for his resistance debuffs suffers from the same thing. The timer is just too short once you get 3 stacks of resistance debuffs in from ranged shots (getting 3 ranged hits to land in and of itself can be incredibly challenging; especially at higher AI levels). But then, on top of all of that, you then have to move in for a melee combo to land your special and by then the current timer is long expired.

    Sure, they both suffer from other issues, but the timing, in my opinion, is a big part of it. Shortened ammo change timers and lengthened debuff timers for both would begin to fix the problem. Their other issues are their specials (though I think Hound's won't be bad once they fix the timer) and that's already been addressed repeatedly to where it's not worth mentioning here. But if they can address the timing issue the way they did with Galvatron, it would be a great place to start in order to make these guys viable choices for everyone's team.

    Anyway, my two cents.
  • Booster_BlueBooster_Blue Posts: 580
    Hound definitely needs some help. Decreasing ammo switch time is a great suggestion and his S3 is ridiculously underpowered.
  • kranderskranders Posts: 479
    Red_Eyes wrote: »
    kranders wrote: »
    Seeing some of the suggestions are funny, like Mirage.

    There are so many good new mechanics that a few bots are definitely in need.

    Starscream - One of the weakest bots in the game unless the enemy has a lot of buffs. Personally I like ranged bots and am fine with him remaining a ranged glass cannon but his damage isn't there. SP1 is weak and the enemy still evades ranged a lot so the buff is pretty useless. Buff should be 100% and should be something like Mirage/Drift where the buff remains until hit, keeps him ranged focused. Could also add something to the buff like nullifies even when ranged are blocked. SP2 is rather pointless when he nullifies all armor buffs but could increase the debuff chance. I don't mind the six nullifies on SP3 however it is useless without the nullify. Should go back to applying burn or giving him a buff like 100% for his heavy to burn... something.

    Hound - Yeah he's complicated but still needs some work. Ammo switch needs to be faster which would make him much better. His sig is short, can't even really get it to apply to s1, maybe if it locked in during special. I would not increase his crit rate but increase the chance to apply his heavy debuff. I go through so many fights barely applying a burn outside s1. I don't think he needs a lot of work but just a few tweaks to make him smoother.

    Wasp - I don't think he needs much but maybe the acid on heavy would be something. Would not touch his specials.

    Grimlock - The only thing I think he needs is a natural armor or perhaps add armor to his melee buff, maybe 5% per buff. He has great potential for damage but for a brawler his defense is weak. He doesn't need much but he is starting to get outclassed.

    Soundwave - I've said before he's started to age poorly. His sig is fine but blocking still takes too much damage, basically for all bots trying to play high level/Master it's hard to really use those focused on blocking. I've also said his s1 is almost useless. I think the drain/lock should be swapped with s3 and/or made 100%. He's completely outclassed by Shockwave and Blaster. Make Soundwave a balance between power gain/control with s1.

    Soundwave's SP1 is useless?? Are you kidding me, a high chance to stun and/or power leak is useless to you?? That's my favourite Soundwave SP, I'm actually disappointed when I don't get to use it. If any Soundwave special is useless, for me, it's his SP3...doesn't really seem to do much damage.

    Yeah, not kidding, it's pretty useless. Any chance to use the special where neither trigger makes it absolutely worthless. Either Stun or Drain chance needs to be 100%, or if it lands restart his power gain. As it is now it's virtually a waste to use s1 over s2. Perhaps when he was released it was decent but compare it to new bots and it's pathetic. His S3 is similar, good upon release but now dated. These days both Shockwave and Blaster outclass Soundwave in nearly all aspects. Blaster needs a little work but there is no instance where I would choose Soundwave over Shockwave unless you're running a sig100 Soundwave.
  • kranderskranders Posts: 479
    Synthwave wrote: »
    kranders wrote: »
    Seeing some of the suggestions are funny, like Mirage.

    There are so many good new mechanics that a few bots are definitely in need.

    Starscream - One of the weakest bots in the game unless the enemy has a lot of buffs. Personally I like ranged bots and am fine with him remaining a ranged glass cannon but his damage isn't there. SP1 is weak and the enemy still evades ranged a lot so the buff is pretty useless. Buff should be 100% and should be something like Mirage/Drift where the buff remains until hit, keeps him ranged focused. Could also add something to the buff like nullifies even when ranged are blocked. SP2 is rather pointless when he nullifies all armor buffs but could increase the debuff chance. I don't mind the six nullifies on SP3 however it is useless without the nullify. Should go back to applying burn or giving him a buff like 100% for his heavy to burn... something.

    Hound - Yeah he's complicated but still needs some work. Ammo switch needs to be faster which would make him much better. His sig is short, can't even really get it to apply to s1, maybe if it locked in during special. I would not increase his crit rate but increase the chance to apply his heavy debuff. I go through so many fights barely applying a burn outside s1. I don't think he needs a lot of work but just a few tweaks to make him smoother.

    Wasp - I don't think he needs much but maybe the acid on heavy would be something. Would not touch his specials.

    Grimlock - The only thing I think he needs is a natural armor or perhaps add armor to his melee buff, maybe 5% per buff. He has great potential for damage but for a brawler his defense is weak. He doesn't need much but he is starting to get outclassed.

    Soundwave - I've said before he's started to age poorly. His sig is fine but blocking still takes too much damage, basically for all bots trying to play high level/Master it's hard to really use those focused on blocking. I've also said his s1 is almost useless. I think the drain/lock should be swapped with s3 and/or made 100%. He's completely outclassed by Shockwave and Blaster. Make Soundwave a balance between power gain/control with s1.


    I like the Drift idea being applied to Starscream in some fashion. I still feel strongly though about tying his melee component into nullifies though, so he's not strictly a range-dependent bot. Ranged hybrids like Hot Rod and Arcee are great examples of how well a balanced range/melee can work; they just need to find that balance with Starscream because right now he gains no benefits from using any kind of melee attack other than just your basic power gain from hitting a guy. But I do agree about his specials needing tweaking too. They've got a lot of work to do with him so he can be used against higher level AI opponents. Often times there's just simply nothing to nullify when facing another bot so adding a low-level DoT effect like shock to his sp1 and burn to his sp3 would also be good possibilities too.

    In terms of Wasp and Hound, I just know that with most range-dependent bots the issue always becomes about time, in that there's just not enough of it. Range-dependent bots almost always have range-based specials, but in order to use those specials for maximum effect, the dev team usually puts in some kind of trigger that has to happen first (Galvatron's dark charges, Hounds crit res. debuff, Wasp's res. debuffs, Shockwave's shock charges, Hot Rod's decelerate, etc). Then, on top of all that, they usually have to race against a timer to get a melee combo in so they can trigger the special because we all know that's pretty much they only way you're going to successfully connect with any special. But in the case of Galvatron the timing issue was his dark energy charges. The problem was that they were taking too long to charge and the timer wasn't locking during his sp2 animation. The dev team saw that and fixed it and now he's pretty good.

    The same issue of timing applies to Hound and Waspinator. Hound's ammo changes take too long and his crit resistance debuff is both erratic in terms of triggering and when it does, it doesn't last long enough to get the needed obligatory melee combo + special in before the timer expires. Waspinator's timer for his resistance debuffs suffers from the same thing. The timer is just too short once you get 3 stacks of resistance debuffs in from ranged shots (getting 3 ranged hits to land in and of itself can be incredibly challenging; especially at higher AI levels). But then, on top of all of that, you then have to move in for a melee combo to land your special and by then the current timer is long expired.

    Sure, they both suffer from other issues, but the timing, in my opinion, is a big part of it. Shortened ammo change timers and lengthened debuff timers for both would begin to fix the problem. Their other issues are their specials (though I think Hound's won't be bad once they fix the timer) and that's already been addressed repeatedly to where it's not worth mentioning here. But if they can address the timing issue the way they did with Galvatron, it would be a great place to start in order to make these guys viable choices for everyone's team.

    Anyway, my two cents.

    Wasp's resistance debuffs do lock in on s3 and with his buffs it's pretty decent. I agree mostly everything with Hound is timing. Either the chance for his heavy debuff needs to be increased to make up for the length or it needs to be longer. Also a lot does come down to the ammo change there is virtually no time to switch ammo while burning except after s1. Given how weak his burns are, by design, then they should last longer to allow switching ammo. There are a lot of ways to tweak the timing but it definitely needs it. His sig should lock into one of his specials which could add a lot as well, like a sidestep counter/special. I still find I land very few ranged after his roll. Also I don't understand why he won't roll after you counter a range with a range. Example you cancel the first shot with your ranged then sidestep the enemies second ranged... should be a roll to me but perhaps it's too complicated to code.
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    All Blaster needs is a little tweak to one stat in his sig and he'll be fine.

    Instead of a static 40% chance to heal while blocking, the number should slide all the way up to 55%, with a 5% increase per interference debuff that's applied on the enemy. Just sitting there holding block while waiting for a chance to heal is incredibly uninteresting, so having to land 3 stacks of intereference debuffs to get a better chance will at least make him more challenging to play because it's actually more risky to have incredibly slowed down bolts coming at you while you wait for them to hit; gives the opponent more of a chance to move in close to attack by other means.

    That or make the the static 40% on a sliding scale based on sig level, but have sig 100 be something like 10% per stack for a total of 70% chance to heal while holding block with 3 debuffs applied. Soundwave's sig 100 is a 90% chance to reflect, which makes him pretty deadly against any ranged-based bot so I don't think a 70% chance to heal while 3 interference time-based debuffs are applied is that crazy.
  • WolfmillsWolfmills Posts: 466
    Manthro wrote: »
    mirage needs to hit a bit harder i think he needs a plus 20% damage increase

    Mirage needs nothing, he is one of the most powerful and versatile bots in the game.

    If you think he is underpowered, it's because you haven't figured out how to utilize him correctly

    That is why i forged him to my 5* shockwave already
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