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In Defence of Hound
Nightgaunt
Posts: 178
Let me preface this by saying that I do think Hound could still use a slight buff to his melee attacks in some form or another, and there's been that many complaints that I'm sure Kabam will have another look at Hound in the coming weeks.
That being said, I think Hound is suffering from Galvatron Syndrome - he needs (needed in Galvatron's case) a slight tweak, but a lot of the difficulties people are coming across are more about adapting to a bot with a pretty specific playstyle.
Firstly, there's been a few posts in threads I've seen where people have been arguing that Hound being a ranged specialist is redundant, because TFTF doesn't favour ranged combat. Put simply, if your ranged game isn't a match for your melee game, then you probably need to work on your ranged game. Firing off one or two shots at a time is preferable, as firing three ranged shots results in a slightly different animation where bot movements are delayed for a fraction of a second. This can stick you in place if you miss ranged attacks and the opponent dashes in to counter. Once you get out of that habit, dodging back and forth while firing off ranged shots becomes pretty easy, and this is a skill that becomes essential when you're using Hound, especially with his signature ability unlocked.
The main thing with Hound is that, despite him being a big 'ol bot, his effectiveness doesn't come from brute force. Hound's real strength lies in knowing and using his abilities to full effect. For example, people have been complaining about how useless his burn debuffs are, but no one seems to be mentioning the fact that burning enemies take 50% more critical damage from Hound's ranged attacks. Want to stack up some big damage? Hit an enemy with SP1 and give them a burn debuff for 15 seconds (numbers are coming from my R3 4* so bear with me). Follow up with a heavy attack and you've got a +20% critical hit rate from the resistance debuff (and a bit of armour) for 6 seconds. Back off, switch to precision ammo (+40% crit rate) then start dodging and weaving as you fire off shots. If you can land a few hits when his sig ability activates, then even better. This also works with SP3, where I'm currently getting a 40% crit rate buff for 28 seconds. That's a lot of damage potential if you apply it right.
The above describes a particular scenario, obviously, but you get the idea - Hound is the kind of bot where some (read: most) of his abilities set up others, like Rhinox's melee bonus from bleeds or Ratchet's increased stun chance on SP1 from shock stacks. It takes some getting used to, but when you've got the technique down, the damage potential is huge. All of this is before mentioning the fact that Hound has some of the best synergies in the game, and his precision ammo counters any and all Evade abilities (which the enemy AI will lean on when it gets chance, much to their disadvantage), as well as Mirage and Windblade's invulnerability to ranged hits during heavy attacks, giving a key advantage against two of the best bots in the game.
Again, I'm not saying that Hound is 100% fine as he is - a minor buff is definitely in order to make him more accessible. The reason I refer to 'Galvatron Syndrome' is that I saw the same thing after his featured month - he had enormous damage potential but because he had a slightly unorthodox playstyle that was hampered by a couple of niggling issues (getting dark burn out of his SP2 was an exercise in frustration) a lot of people dismissed him out of hand, blaming any and all difficulties they had getting used to fighting with him on the bot. Hound will get better, I'm sure of it, but for the meantime I'd suggest people give him a try with an open mind, and allow themselves to try adjusting their play style a little to see if they get something more out of him.
That being said, I think Hound is suffering from Galvatron Syndrome - he needs (needed in Galvatron's case) a slight tweak, but a lot of the difficulties people are coming across are more about adapting to a bot with a pretty specific playstyle.
Firstly, there's been a few posts in threads I've seen where people have been arguing that Hound being a ranged specialist is redundant, because TFTF doesn't favour ranged combat. Put simply, if your ranged game isn't a match for your melee game, then you probably need to work on your ranged game. Firing off one or two shots at a time is preferable, as firing three ranged shots results in a slightly different animation where bot movements are delayed for a fraction of a second. This can stick you in place if you miss ranged attacks and the opponent dashes in to counter. Once you get out of that habit, dodging back and forth while firing off ranged shots becomes pretty easy, and this is a skill that becomes essential when you're using Hound, especially with his signature ability unlocked.
The main thing with Hound is that, despite him being a big 'ol bot, his effectiveness doesn't come from brute force. Hound's real strength lies in knowing and using his abilities to full effect. For example, people have been complaining about how useless his burn debuffs are, but no one seems to be mentioning the fact that burning enemies take 50% more critical damage from Hound's ranged attacks. Want to stack up some big damage? Hit an enemy with SP1 and give them a burn debuff for 15 seconds (numbers are coming from my R3 4* so bear with me). Follow up with a heavy attack and you've got a +20% critical hit rate from the resistance debuff (and a bit of armour) for 6 seconds. Back off, switch to precision ammo (+40% crit rate) then start dodging and weaving as you fire off shots. If you can land a few hits when his sig ability activates, then even better. This also works with SP3, where I'm currently getting a 40% crit rate buff for 28 seconds. That's a lot of damage potential if you apply it right.
The above describes a particular scenario, obviously, but you get the idea - Hound is the kind of bot where some (read: most) of his abilities set up others, like Rhinox's melee bonus from bleeds or Ratchet's increased stun chance on SP1 from shock stacks. It takes some getting used to, but when you've got the technique down, the damage potential is huge. All of this is before mentioning the fact that Hound has some of the best synergies in the game, and his precision ammo counters any and all Evade abilities (which the enemy AI will lean on when it gets chance, much to their disadvantage), as well as Mirage and Windblade's invulnerability to ranged hits during heavy attacks, giving a key advantage against two of the best bots in the game.
Again, I'm not saying that Hound is 100% fine as he is - a minor buff is definitely in order to make him more accessible. The reason I refer to 'Galvatron Syndrome' is that I saw the same thing after his featured month - he had enormous damage potential but because he had a slightly unorthodox playstyle that was hampered by a couple of niggling issues (getting dark burn out of his SP2 was an exercise in frustration) a lot of people dismissed him out of hand, blaming any and all difficulties they had getting used to fighting with him on the bot. Hound will get better, I'm sure of it, but for the meantime I'd suggest people give him a try with an open mind, and allow themselves to try adjusting their play style a little to see if they get something more out of him.
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I'm in work at the moment, so I won't be able to upload until later, but I'll record all my matches with Hound and pick out some vids that show what I mean. Hope that helps.
Awesome. Thanks in advanced.
Here's an assortment of vids from recent gameplay. They're not my best efforts to be honest, and I think most are from story missions or raids with lower PI bots, but I was more interested in showing some of the technique to fighting more at range, and using some of Hounds abilities. I'll try to get something better recorded at some point that gives a fairer example, but I didn't wanna keep people waiting forever.
Agree.. please share videos of him in higher PI bot battles... your Hound is 2.2k PI so battles near that PI or above him will only then be qualified as showing him being good... if he does well there.
Since his burn isn't his damage output make it something like SW's heavy where it doesn't stack but reapplies. Or do something like increased chance to burn for a three shot volley or change his roll to increased crit rate.
Sorry, but I disagree on this one. I've been using my r2 unduped Hound and I think his damage output is just fine.
At r2 his burn damage on inferno ammo is 25% over 10 seconds... At r2.
In comparison, IH has 30% damage over a shorter duration at r4 for extra burn stacks beyond the first one. Yeah, it takes longer to get the damage in with hound, but it's comparable at r2 already.
I don't know what it increases to as he ranks up, but I'm sure it gets nasty, that is a long debuff. Without stacking it loses some pop.
I don't find it tough to apply burns at all if I lead with a heavy attack to lower Crit resistance. He gets an armor buff on heavies as well.
I'm not sure why players dislike him. I think he's a fun bot to play once you get used to his skillset.
He's not terrible, he just different like Mixmaster.
Comparing a crit from a heavy attack to a regular ranged attack lul
You realize that the burn damage itself is based off basic melee, right? Ignore the big crits of IH and compare burn vs burn. Hound has a much higher attack rating which translates into more damage on the burns overall.
Did not but did you realize the initial burn does about 60% of his attack and the extra burn stacks are 30% of his attack?
Pretty sure I covered that:
What I'd like to know is what the burn damage percentage is on an r4 or r5 Hound so we can get a true comparison
60% of attack as burn damage over 8 seconds at r5. Add to that +50% Crit damage on burning opponents for those 8 (or more) seconds.
That's huge.
I think players aren't giving high level Hound enough credit and they need to learn how to utilize him.
cool glad to know that.. might R4 him one day as I managed to get his dupe during featured month.
didn't know his attack from burn goes up as he climb the ranks..
I will disagree back. First my comment was less about damage output and more on Hound still not being a good alternative to use on Pyrophobia. I've landed his heavy debuff and still landed 6-8 shots with no crit to burn. That's too unreliable for the set up involved. Perhaps if his heavy was 100% on the debuff but I've also landed multiple heavies with no debuff. You've also completely ignored his crit ammo. Since he does play different if you're going to utilize him completely then switching ammo types would factor in more which is why his burn lasts so long. Applying a single burn stack more consistently and switching to crit ammo would be a strategy.
Using an r2 vs r5 in arena gives you a pretty lengthy fight. Considering that quite a lot of the time I land 1 or 2 burns an entire fight leaves a lot to be desired.
As for ih Vs hound, the main point of ih is the guaranteed burn damage that can stacks is deadly regardless of rank. Hound's doesn't even stack and it's already low in output to begin with.
His only redeeming feature is his s2, which is pretty great in damage thanks to the potential bleed stacks.
Do you even lift bro?
I’ve seen it in gameplay videos, but I’ve never had it happen. Then again, I only have an unduped r2 and it’s very rare for me to even get one stack of burn. This is after a heavy and I have the crit mastery maxed.