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Please explain

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  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited June 2018
    Ares wrote: »
    Spicer said melee! Lol manthro was right

    Of course, the next question will be "then why is it affected by EMI??"

    Because, it's a ranged melee attack. The hit is melee, the attack itself is ranged.[/quote]

    Actually the next question is, why does Bonecrusher cause bleed only when hit and with his heavy attack. I feel that at least in the end of the medium or heavy combo he should be able to cause a bleed, especially when his critical rate is activated.[/quote]






    BC lands bleeds on critical heavy attacks. That's more than enough.
  • SparkShredderSparkShredder Posts: 1,300
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Y2K wrote: »
    Y2K wrote: »
    And what is Prowl's SP2? A melee ranged?

    It's a simple ranged ranged

    If it's ranged then it should be sidestepped.

    Why? It's a shotgun - shotguns have wide range limited distance

    Dash Back is key,, you can dodge every attack with it unless it's SoundWave heavy, grenades of mix and hound and basic ranged
  • StealthIsDeWaeStealthIsDeWae Posts: 45
    edited June 2018
    Like what @DaveJL said, shotguns have a wide range, so its nearly impossible to sidestep Prowls sp2. Now Ive heard from a lot of sources that the best way to dodge Prowls sp2 is by backstepping, but youve gotta time it just right, almost perfectly, which i cant do. Thats why i try not to bother with Prowls sp2, and just try to goad him into using his sp1 instead, which would be hard if you come across him and he has a mod that increases power consumption or something like that
  • SparkShredderSparkShredder Posts: 1,300
    Like what @DaveJL said, shotguns have a wide range, so its nearly impossible to sidestep Prowls sp2. Now Ive heard from a lot of sources that the best way to dodge Prowls sp2 is by backstepping, but youve gotta time it just right, almost perfectly, which i cant do. Thats why i try not to bother with Prowls sp2, and just try to goad him into using his sp1 instead, which would be hard if you come across him and he has a mod that increases power consumption or something like that

    MOD? His signature don't allow to bait sp1!, he'll just backstep and block, by time you'll be break his block , he would be at sp2!, then only choice is just hit him to kill before he use or fill sp3 and use it, it does relatively less damage i guess, power lock can elapsed by dodging and so
  • Y2KY2K Posts: 252
    Unlimited distance, it hits you wherever you're hiding.
  • SparkShredderSparkShredder Posts: 1,300
    Manthro wrote: »
    Like what @DaveJL said, shotguns have a wide range, so its nearly impossible to sidestep Prowls sp2. Now Ive heard from a lot of sources that the best way to dodge Prowls sp2 is by backstepping, but youve gotta time it just right, almost perfectly, which i cant do. Thats why i try not to bother with Prowls sp2, and just try to goad him into using his sp1 instead, which would be hard if you come across him and he has a mod that increases power consumption or something like that

    MOD? His signature don't allow to bait sp1!, he'll just backstep and block, by time you'll be break his block , he would be at sp2!, then only choice is just hit him to kill before he use or fill sp3 and use it, it does relatively less damage i guess, power lock can elapsed by dodging and so

    Shredder, what are you talking about? You can bait Prowl s1, and do it repeatedly.

    Sure, he sometimes backsteps and charges his buff/power gain, but that's part of the game.

    You talk like you're a veteran, but you clearly aren't... Otherwise you wouldn't be saying stuff like this and adding exclamation points to it as if it is the absolute truth on top of it.

    Just because you have trouble with it, does not mean it is not possible. Many many many players routinely bait s1 out of Prowl.

    Yeah I sometime he's bait as soon as he gets it,, sometime he tends to store, sometime he bait after some time pass.... All depends on mood of A.I
  • AresAres Posts: 38
    Bringing up prowl you guys reminded me of Shockwaves sp2. Has anyone noticed that when you sidestep to the top you still get hit by the laser, yet you go down and it’s a complete miss. Another one of those game mechanics?
  • SparkShredderSparkShredder Posts: 1,300
    @Manthro yeah I have less skill in defence but pretty good at offence ability use...i Mess up when I have sidestep, backstep a lot....
    There's been also times when I.. Trying to get full utility of abilities.... I get caught in their attacks
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    I actively bait out Prowls sp2 because it is so easy to dodge lmao. It's just a back dash and another back dash...
  • So guys,

    Everything you guys have said here is correct. Primal's Heavy Attack is a ranged attack that does Melee damage. That being said, we're looking into this. It might not be possible, due to how our system works, but we're going to look into keeping it Melee/Ranged, and see if we can make it not trigger Bone Crusher's bleed.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    So guys,

    Everything you guys have said here is correct. Primal's Heavy Attack is a ranged attack that does Melee damage. That being said, we're looking into this. It might not be possible, due to how our system works, but we're going to look into keeping it Melee/Ranged, and see if we can make it not trigger Bone Crusher's bleed.

    Just keep it as it is and let players work around it. Shock is more annoying off Rhinox.
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 994
    So guys,

    Everything you guys have said here is correct. Primal's Heavy Attack is a ranged attack that does Melee damage. That being said, we're looking into this. It might not be possible, due to how our system works, but we're going to look into keeping it Melee/Ranged, and see if we can make it not trigger Bone Crusher's bleed.

    And look into those who hit Bone with swords too...are the swords bleeding?
  • Ares wrote: »
    Bringing up prowl you guys reminded me of Shockwaves sp2. Has anyone noticed that when you sidestep to the top you still get hit by the laser, yet you go down and it’s a complete miss. Another one of those game mechanics?

    Yup, I noticed this as well and thought it was completely unavoidable (since it looks like it) until I side-stepped the other way. Let's keep this on the hush though ;-)
  • Mr_WonderfulMr_Wonderful Posts: 760
    I don’t see the issue with baiting prowl’s sp2, all it takes is practise. I made a thread about it a while back and the dash back is the answer I got. It definitely works, you just need to be on your guard for it and dash back at the same time as the shot. Exact same with bludgeon’s sp2 last hit, and mixmaster sp2 last hit can be dodged with sidestep to the right, as is with shockwave sp2. The exact moment of the hit is when you dodge.

    Keep practising and it’ll be a non issue within weeks. Being proficient at baiting all sp2’s is the most time and damage efficient way to go. Let’s you lay into them a bit more rather than risking taking damage by constantly trying to bait sp1’s.

    I’m no master at this game yet, but I’ve watched plenty videos of experts and you’ll see them bait sp2 and dodge with ease. Everyone gets caught off guard occasionally (blaster sp2 in particular for me at the moment) but once you’ve got it nailed, you’ll never see it as an issue again.
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 994
    Red_Eyes wrote: »
    So guys,

    Everything you guys have said here is correct. Primal's Heavy Attack is a ranged attack that does Melee damage. That being said, we're looking into this. It might not be possible, due to how our system works, but we're going to look into keeping it Melee/Ranged, and see if we can make it not trigger Bone Crusher's bleed.

    And look into those who hit Bone with swords too...are the swords bleeding?

    That one is not going to change. That's simply because the system sees that this is a hit that it's a physical melee hit, and if we go down that rabbit hole, we're going to be spiraling forever with all these different combinations of attacks.

    I understand.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    Ares wrote: »
    Bringing up prowl you guys reminded me of Shockwaves sp2. Has anyone noticed that when you sidestep to the top you still get hit by the laser, yet you go down and it’s a complete miss. Another one of those game mechanics?

    Yup, I noticed this as well and thought it was completely unavoidable (since it looks like it) until I side-stepped the other way. Let's keep this on the hush though ;-)

    Unless you are close to him. I guess if you go up, you are walking in to his laser sweep, down is with it. Still, if you are on the wall you get hit and if you are close you get hit.

    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.
  • AresAres Posts: 38
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Ares wrote: »
    Bringing up prowl you guys reminded me of Shockwaves sp2. Has anyone noticed that when you sidestep to the top you still get hit by the laser, yet you go down and it’s a complete miss. Another one of those game mechanics?

    Yup, I noticed this as well and thought it was completely unavoidable (since it looks like it) until I side-stepped the other way. Let's keep this on the hush though ;-)

    Unless you are close to him. I guess if you go up, you are walking in to his laser sweep, down is with it. Still, if you are on the wall you get hit and if you are close you get hit.

    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.

    Don’t know what you mean by this one. I haven’t had an issue with his Sp1

    Also thank you guys for the answers. It’s helped me understand this fighting engine a bit more.
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 2,949
    Well, I'm not excited with the new changes to Primal's heavies. If it triggers Bonecrusher's bleed, Primal's gonna heal afterwards, sometimes you can combine his sig with his BP synergies to feed off opponent's bleeds.
    And PLEASE leave Primal's heavy damage being affected by his melee attacks alone
  • Y2KY2K Posts: 252
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.
    A lot of specials are undodgeable if you have your back against the wall. What I have in mind are:
    * SP1 of Bludgeon/Warrior Shark
    * SP1 of Grimlock
    * SP2 of Kickback
    * SP2 of Hound
    * SP2 of Tact Bee
    * SP2 of Rhinox
    * SP2 of Primal (presumably)

  • SparkShredderSparkShredder Posts: 1,300
    Y2K wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.
    A lot of specials are undodgeable if you have your back against the wall. What I have in mind are:
    * SP1 of Bludgeon/Warrior Shark
    * SP1 of Grimlock
    * SP2 of Kickback
    * SP2 of Hound
    * SP2 of Tact Bee
    * SP2 of Rhinox
    * SP2 of Primal (presumably)

    Continuos sidesteps work?
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Y2K wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.
    A lot of specials are undodgeable if you have your back against the wall. What I have in mind are:
    * SP1 of Bludgeon/Warrior Shark
    * SP1 of Grimlock
    * SP2 of Kickback
    * SP2 of Hound
    * SP2 of Tact Bee
    * SP2 of Rhinox
    * SP2 of Primal (presumably)

    I got news for you... They are all avoidable with your back against the wall, it's just that the timing where you backstep changes, and in the case of s1 with multiple hits (like Bludgeon or bee) you may need an extra backstep or two to avoid it all.
  • DaveJL wrote: »
    I actively bait out Prowls sp2 because it is so easy to dodge lmao. It's just a back dash and another back dash...
    Hmmm. I dunno how you guys do it. Ive fought him and tried to backstep, and he still hit me. I dunno, i guess like i said, you gotta have perfect timing. I mean, practice makes perfect, right??
  • StealthIsDeWaeStealthIsDeWae Posts: 45
    edited June 2018
    Y2K wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.
    A lot of specials are undodgeable if you have your back against the wall. What I have in mind are:
    * SP1 of Bludgeon/Warrior Shark
    * SP1 of Grimlock
    * SP2 of Kickback
    * SP2 of Hound
    * SP2 of Tact Bee
    * SP2 of Rhinox
    * SP2 of Primal (presumably)

    You could just block. Presuming you have fast reflexes.
  • SparkShredderSparkShredder Posts: 1,300
    DaveJL wrote: »
    I actively bait out Prowls sp2 because it is so easy to dodge lmao. It's just a back dash and another back dash...
    Hmmm. I dunno how you guys do it. Ive fought him and tried to backstep, and he still hit me. I dunno, i guess like i said, you gotta have perfect timing. I mean, practice makes perfect, right??

    Perfect timing is... Look at his gun exactly when he shoots, dash back,, not before not after
  • SparkShredderSparkShredder Posts: 1,300
    Y2K wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.
    A lot of specials are undodgeable if you have your back against the wall. What I have in mind are:
    * SP1 of Bludgeon/Warrior Shark
    * SP1 of Grimlock
    * SP2 of Kickback
    * SP2 of Hound
    * SP2 of Tact Bee
    * SP2 of Rhinox
    * SP2 of Primal (presumably)

    You could just block. Presuming you have fast reflexes.

    Sometimes it's not option to block either in master missions ,you have avoid it completely.

    Another way is sidestep the four times and you won't be against wall. Sometimes bots keep dash back along the edge of wall across the circumference of arena
  • Y2KY2K Posts: 252
    edited June 2018
    Manthro wrote: »
    Y2K wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Grimlocks Sp1 against the wall though - still no clue.
    A lot of specials are undodgeable if you have your back against the wall. What I have in mind are:
    * SP1 of Bludgeon/Warrior Shark
    * SP1 of Grimlock
    * SP2 of Kickback
    * SP2 of Hound
    * SP2 of Tact Bee
    * SP2 of Rhinox
    * SP2 of Primal (presumably)

    I got news for you... They are all avoidable with your back against the wall, it's just that the timing where you backstep changes, and in the case of s1 with multiple hits (like Bludgeon or bee) you may need an extra backstep or two to avoid it all.

    Even for Rhinox and Bludgeon's? I may need to see it with my eyes. Oh, I may have left something out: not only you're against the wall, but also the enemy is pressing you against the wall to start the special.
    I say it because some times you're at the bottom of the arena and you think you're not against the wall. But when you see Bludgeon's sp1, you backstep only to immediately touch the border of the ring and can no longer backstep.

    I know I'm in another world because ninjas (like Youtube streamers) seldom have this problem getting cornered. I've asked a veteran how to dodge some of the specials listed above as a challenge. When his videos roll in, it seems each time he has the special baited out when enemy is in their half of the ring.... time to git gud.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    The flame part of Grimlocks sp1 as far as I know, cannot be dodged if you are against the wall. I'm not sure about Bludgeons sp1 against the wall either - I don't think the recovery from the first backstep is quick enough to allow another before you get hit. Primals sp2 can be dodged against the wall I believe. Sp2 of hounds is all sidesteps, so can be evaded against the wall.
  • DaveJL wrote: »
    I actively bait out Prowls sp2 because it is so easy to dodge lmao. It's just a back dash and another back dash...
    Hmmm. I dunno how you guys do it. Ive fought him and tried to backstep, and he still hit me. I dunno, i guess like i said, you gotta have perfect timing. I mean, practice makes perfect, right??

    Perfect timing is... Look at his gun exactly when he shoots, dash back,, not before not after

    Thx @SparkShredder I didnt realize you had to backstep at the EXACT moment he fires his gun. Ill be sure to get some practice in the next time i see Prowl. He wont get so lucky next time >:)
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