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Harm Accelerators:Painful

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Comments

  • asparagusasparagus Posts: 184
    They'll probably just nerf mv1.
  • tekkn1kaltekkn1kal Posts: 430
    edited June 2017
    Manthro wrote: »
    tekkn1kal wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    Defensively triggered bleed in general is a broken skill, or any DoT skill that triggers When getting hit (Rhinox/shock) When bots without HA can kill you without even landing a single hit, there's a problem with the balance of the skill itself.

    And don't start with the "just shoot ranged" argument. That is besides the point completely. DoT defense skills are broken. Bonecrusher is just way over the top, so he's the one that gets noticed, and bleed is blamed when it is actually the mechanism by which it is triggered.

    Rhinox is fine, his damage is completely avoidable and he is actually fun to fight since you have the mechanic of removing his shields first before unloading.

    There is no way to remove his shields without melee attacks so I don't see how you can say the shock damage is completely avoidable without only using ranged attacks.

    He's not nearly the problem BC is, but he is still a bot you generally have to take mandatory damage against when fighting, unless his ability happens to never trigger.

    That's not how Rhinox works. You can easily remove his shields as long as you don't burst them. You burst them when you exceed the maximum damage absorbed by each individual shield.

    And similar to the HA thing, Bonecrusher has a counter in MV1. There will be more counters to him later, but for now, that's the guy. This is standard from MCOC, they aren't likely to be removing these types of damage where you HAVE to bring the right bot or suffer.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    Both Ultrons, both Visions, Colossus, Luke Cage, Groot, Agent Venom (sorta). All bleed immune. They couldnt have given us one more counter to the most broken mod in the game? Literally any other mod, I have four bots that either counter or mostly ignore it. For Harms I have one, and if Ultra Magnus is sitting on it I have ZERO.
    Nerf harms or release bots that can work around them. Soon.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    CandKane wrote: »
    Both Ultrons, both Visions, Colossus, Luke Cage, Groot, Agent Venom (sorta). All bleed immune. They couldnt have given us one more counter to the most broken mod in the game? Literally any other mod, I have four bots that either counter or mostly ignore it. For Harms I have one, and if Ultra Magnus is sitting on it I have ZERO.
    Nerf harms or release bots that can work around them. Soon.

    I think everyone neglects ratchet as a decent counter to HA.

    Not nearly as good as MV1, but his heal can slow bleed to a crawl as long as it doesn't stack.

    Still.. I agree there is zero direct counter to it, MV1, ratchet or otherwise.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    Very true, I'd forgotten Ratchet. Poor guy seems to get underestimated a lot, but I ranked him up and won a few fights I had no business surviving.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    Due to stacking, Ratchet gets slaughtered as bad as any other character. His heal is nice, but his low damage offsets it.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    This is true.

    I would actually suggest a change to ratchet:

    When any DoT debuff is active(bleed,shock, acid, burn) ratchet has the ability to stack self diagnosis up to 3x. Ratchet loses 5% melee damage and 5% chance to critical hit per stack of self diagnosis.
  • tekkn1kaltekkn1kal Posts: 430
    CandKane wrote: »
    Both Ultrons, both Visions, Colossus, Luke Cage, Groot, Agent Venom (sorta). All bleed immune. They couldnt have given us one more counter to the most broken mod in the game? Literally any other mod, I have four bots that either counter or mostly ignore it. For Harms I have one, and if Ultra Magnus is sitting on it I have ZERO.
    Nerf harms or release bots that can work around them. Soon.

    That's out of 100+ bots though. Yes, I agree they could use another at this point, but if we had 2/20 that would be 10% of the bots having some bleed immunity, and we wouldn't have anything to complain about at that point.
  • DirculesDircules Posts: 509
    CandKane wrote: »
    Both Ultrons, both Visions, Colossus, Luke Cage, Groot, Agent Venom (sorta). All bleed immune. They couldnt have given us one more counter to the most broken mod in the game? Literally any other mod, I have four bots that either counter or mostly ignore it. For Harms I have one, and if Ultra Magnus is sitting on it I have ZERO.
    Nerf harms or release bots that can work around them. Soon.

    I have no problem nuking an Ultra Magnus to death with my IronHide when I find them sitting on a HA. Sure I take a bit of damage from the mod, but that's about all the damage you have to take.
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    edited June 2017
    Dircules wrote: »
    CandKane wrote: »
    Both Ultrons, both Visions, Colossus, Luke Cage, Groot, Agent Venom (sorta). All bleed immune. They couldnt have given us one more counter to the most broken mod in the game? Literally any other mod, I have four bots that either counter or mostly ignore it. For Harms I have one, and if Ultra Magnus is sitting on it I have ZERO.
    Nerf harms or release bots that can work around them. Soon.

    I have no problem nuking an Ultra Magnus to death with my IronHide when I find them sitting on a HA. Sure I take a bit of damage from the mod, but that's about all the damage you have to take.

    oh yeah? try fighting a 3* maxed out rachet with a 3* harm accelerator and tell us how well you'd do with your ironhide or heck try using even a scout class hero..
  • Jones117aJones117a Posts: 39
    Davien wrote: »
    Dircules wrote: »
    CandKane wrote: »
    Both Ultrons, both Visions, Colossus, Luke Cage, Groot, Agent Venom (sorta). All bleed immune. They couldnt have given us one more counter to the most broken mod in the game? Literally any other mod, I have four bots that either counter or mostly ignore it. For Harms I have one, and if Ultra Magnus is sitting on it I have ZERO.
    Nerf harms or release bots that can work around them. Soon.

    I have no problem nuking an Ultra Magnus to death with my IronHide when I find them sitting on a HA. Sure I take a bit of damage from the mod, but that's about all the damage you have to take.

    oh yeah? try fighting a 3* maxed out rachet with a 3* harm accelerator and tell us how well you'd do with your ironhide or heck try using even a scout class hero..

    I think he was just giving an alternative to fight ultra Magnus as he has the class advantage over Optimus MV1. Optimus MV1 can easily deal with anything though including ratchet and tacticians. Even a 2* MV1 is sufficient in most cases.
  • DirculesDircules Posts: 509
    Davien wrote: »
    Dircules wrote: »
    CandKane wrote: »
    Both Ultrons, both Visions, Colossus, Luke Cage, Groot, Agent Venom (sorta). All bleed immune. They couldnt have given us one more counter to the most broken mod in the game? Literally any other mod, I have four bots that either counter or mostly ignore it. For Harms I have one, and if Ultra Magnus is sitting on it I have ZERO.
    Nerf harms or release bots that can work around them. Soon.

    I have no problem nuking an Ultra Magnus to death with my IronHide when I find them sitting on a HA. Sure I take a bit of damage from the mod, but that's about all the damage you have to take.

    oh yeah? try fighting a 3* maxed out rachet with a 3* harm accelerator and tell us how well you'd do with your ironhide or heck try using even a scout class hero..

    Never faced that combo. Will let you know if I do :)
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    Nerfed already?
    Updated to 2.0 and I find the "bleed stacking" is gone for harm accelerator, I took several specials from enemy Grindor and still bleed just a little. AND the bleed is no longer permanent.
  • PeyotePeyote Posts: 163
    If you check the info on the Mod, it still says a new stack is added when a special attack is used, and I've experienced it myself. And the bleed was never permanent, maybe you killed your ennemies too fast :)
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    I just had a fight earlier it did stack on specials but capped at 2 bleeds I'll watch more next raid outing
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    The duration needs to be srsly reduced. Takes forever for a bleed stack to be over.
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    Seeing it everywhere in raids now. 3* getting common. Guess the devs don't bother fixing this.. Game breaking for raids. Gonna quit the game if this doesn't get fixed soon. Such a ridiculous mechanism.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    Grindor sitting on one is a nightmare. The passive bleed is damaging you just as much as you're damaging him without the AI lifting a finger. Finally gave up and started leveling MV1, but this isn't good game design.
    It's not that HA is a painful mod, even. It's that it is hands-down the BEST mod, to the point that people avoid using other mods just to cram more accelerators into their base. Making it worse is that only one bot can (partially) counter the mod, every other bot will lose 60-80% of their health on a perfect run against a same level opponent.
    Other than this abomination however, I really do enjoy the other mods. Powerful yes, but without being unfair and plenty of ways to fight around them.
  • Jones117aJones117a Posts: 39
    CandKane wrote: »
    Grindor sitting on one is a nightmare. The passive bleed is damaging you just as much as you're damaging him without the AI lifting a finger. Finally gave up and started leveling MV1, but this isn't good game design.
    It's not that HA is a painful mod, even. It's that it is hands-down the BEST mod, to the point that people avoid using other mods just to cram more accelerators into their base. Making it worse is that only one bot can (partially) counter the mod, every other bot will lose 60-80% of their health on a perfect run against a same level opponent.
    Other than this abomination however, I really do enjoy the other mods. Powerful yes, but without being unfair and plenty of ways to fight around them.

    HA is not considered the best mod because it has a very clear counter and more and more people are going to get MV1 and it will become almost useless. Laser guidance module is much harder to counter. HA on a 3/30 Grindor is much less devastating than laser guidance module on a 3/30 waspinator. If you play well with MV1 against Grindor you'll barely take 1/4 damage. If you don't play perfectly against wasp it's unlikely you'll survive, especially with the SP1 being so hard to dodge for most people. No bot is a solid counter to it, a couple offer an unreliable counter to it.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    Jones117a wrote: »
    CandKane wrote: »
    Grindor sitting on one is a nightmare. The passive bleed is damaging you just as much as you're damaging him without the AI lifting a finger. Finally gave up and started leveling MV1, but this isn't good game design.
    It's not that HA is a painful mod, even. It's that it is hands-down the BEST mod, to the point that people avoid using other mods just to cram more accelerators into their base. Making it worse is that only one bot can (partially) counter the mod, every other bot will lose 60-80% of their health on a perfect run against a same level opponent.
    Other than this abomination however, I really do enjoy the other mods. Powerful yes, but without being unfair and plenty of ways to fight around them.

    HA is not considered the best mod because it has a very clear counter and more and more people are going to get MV1 and it will become almost useless. Laser guidance module is much harder to counter. HA on a 3/30 Grindor is much less devastating than laser guidance module on a 3/30 waspinator. If you play well with MV1 against Grindor you'll barely take 1/4 damage. If you don't play perfectly against wasp it's unlikely you'll survive, especially with the SP1 being so hard to dodge for most people. No bot is a solid counter to it, a couple offer an unreliable counter to it.

    And my experience has been exactly the opposite. Wasp is easy, sidestep and let him have it. Any bot can beat him without worrying too much about anything besides his S1 (which I admit hits like a truck with the mod). I don't particularly care to play with MV1, but the game is forcing a certain character to survive and that's bad design.
  • AAGZ0921AAGZ0921 Posts: 194
    I'm having mixed feelings with this. If you don't have the HA, then you get all your raid chips drained while you sleep at night. If you have it with the right bot, then is extremely difficult to get raided. I think it should be left alone.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    CandKane wrote: »
    Jones117a wrote: »
    CandKane wrote: »
    Grindor sitting on one is a nightmare. The passive bleed is damaging you just as much as you're damaging him without the AI lifting a finger. Finally gave up and started leveling MV1, but this isn't good game design.
    It's not that HA is a painful mod, even. It's that it is hands-down the BEST mod, to the point that people avoid using other mods just to cram more accelerators into their base. Making it worse is that only one bot can (partially) counter the mod, every other bot will lose 60-80% of their health on a perfect run against a same level opponent.
    Other than this abomination however, I really do enjoy the other mods. Powerful yes, but without being unfair and plenty of ways to fight around them.

    HA is not considered the best mod because it has a very clear counter and more and more people are going to get MV1 and it will become almost useless. Laser guidance module is much harder to counter. HA on a 3/30 Grindor is much less devastating than laser guidance module on a 3/30 waspinator. If you play well with MV1 against Grindor you'll barely take 1/4 damage. If you don't play perfectly against wasp it's unlikely you'll survive, especially with the SP1 being so hard to dodge for most people. No bot is a solid counter to it, a couple offer an unreliable counter to it.

    And my experience has been exactly the opposite. Wasp is easy, sidestep and let him have it. Any bot can beat him without worrying too much about anything besides his S1 (which I admit hits like a truck with the mod). I don't particularly care to play with MV1, but the game is forcing a certain character to survive and that's bad design.

    More to the point, HA is countered with RNG luck from crystals, while Laser Guidance is countered by skill.

    Im cool with the second; the first is just stupid, and this is coming from someone with a maxed 3* MV1. That said, I do think Wasp might be slightly bugged. He does WAYYYY too much damage sometimes on LG nodes. I've seen him do 1/4 of a 3* maxed hero damage ON A BLOCK. Normally not to bad, but he seems to do way too much damage on occasion, way beyond any other character on a LG node.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    So @Kabam Miike what happened to taking this to the team? Instead of something being done about something that is hugely imbalanced compared to other mods, you try and get people to buy it.

    How can you change it now without making a large group of people who bought it very angry?

    This is really bad form by Kabam.

    Please do some fixes instead of sales. How many more sales are needed before there's enough money to pay someone to fix things?
  • ZapperZapper Posts: 186
    As of now, it's 100% impossible to defend your base. I have two 4/40 bots (IH and the classic optimus) and my current target of choice (the sweetspot if you would say so) are 6-8k bases. My failure rate is maybe 1%, and that's mostly because of crashing etc.

    I just pulled a MV1, that basically means that as soon as I have him on 3/30 the only mod that poses any difficutly right now (HA) will be hard countered.

    So while HA in itself might seem OP, it's possible this is just because all other mods are UP. So for now I would advice to watch how this develops with new mods, bots etc. The last changes to the shop were great in any case. Getting an Alpha every 8 days is a big step up to the situation before.
  • ZapperZapper Posts: 186
    P.S.: Also don't spend your money on mods. Defending your base has no benefit at all currently (unless you want to be in the top 100, but what does that give you?)

    Kabam would have to up the rewards for defending your base by A LOT to make it worth investing resources in (especially money). Right now you are WAY better of by optimizing your attack bots, i.E. spending energon on raiding, i.E. alpha shards.
  • kranderskranders Posts: 479
    Just take off the HA stack for missed or blocked specials. Being punished for getting hit by one is fine but to lose from Grindor using two S1s and blocking a whole fight is pretty dumb.
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    edited June 2017
    Kabam just roasted all of us by selling the 3* HA directly 2 days ago for 650 energon. I for one bought it as I hate it and love to have it at the same time.

    You guys just got Kabam-ed.. looks like the devs want to remain it as it is for the time being. Wish for that MV1 3 or 4* if you still didn't have him. Good luck!
  • Hired_GoonHired_Goon Posts: 440
    I still dont use MV1 Prime and oh how I love to go trolling for Harm Accelerator protected bases. They're so ridiculously easy.

    Harm Accelerators are not that hard to deal with. Try being more aggressive with your playstyle and not so passive allowing enemy bots to build more specials, HA to drain life.

    The only potentially devastating combo on HA is Bonecrusher and HA. But that isn't used much anymore because MV1 Prime walks all over it.

    So long as your bot is on par or higher than the bot your fighting, HA PI bonus not included, then you should be able to smack down the defending bot before HA poses a real problem.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    Hired_Goon wrote: »

    So long as your bot is on par or higher than the bot your fighting, HA PI bonus not included, then you should be able to smack down the defending bot before HA poses a real problem.

    You're quite wrong on this, the PI difference can be 200-300 and unless you use MV1 you will still see roughly half health drained, more if you must wait to bait specials. HA is the only mod that can't be beaten with skill, it's a fine on either your health, your items, or your wallet if you haven't pulled MV1 yet.
    Then again, I'm quitting raids because I play this game to have fun, not be chained to my phone constantly stressing over medal count and whether I'll be raided three times in an hour.
  • Hired_GoonHired_Goon Posts: 440
    edited June 2017
    CandKane wrote: »

    You're quite wrong on this, the PI difference can be 200-300 and unless you use MV1 you will still see roughly half health drained, more if you must wait to bait specials. HA is the only mod that can't be beaten with skill, it's a fine on either your health, your items, or your wallet if you haven't pulled MV1 yet.
    Then again, I'm quitting raids because I play this game to have fun, not be chained to my phone constantly stressing over medal count and whether I'll be raided three times in an hour.

    This is your opinion, i don't use MV1 Prime. I use CW Prime and I do great. It's unfortunate that you're having issues and feel you must have a particular bot to be successful
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