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Abilities need tuning post mastery addition

Guys, certain abilities need to be looked at after masteries were introduced. Specifically Rhinox's shields and Bonecrusher's bleeds on hit.

Rhinox -- Something seems broken with the way his shields are dispensing shocks since the mastery update. I play two accounts, one who is in the 50s AM level and another which is far higher. I am using a Ratchet on both my AM teams and both Ratchets are of identical strength.

However, when I use my Ratchet on the lower level AM, I never, ever take shock damage by exceeding the threshold of Rhinox's shields. When I use Ratchet on the higher level AM, it is extremely common for me to take shock damage on about 20% of my LIGHT hits. With the SAME strength Ratchet.

This makes zero sense, as the higher level Rhinox should have a far HIGHER threshold before dispensing shock, however, the opposite is occurring. The idea that a 3* Ratchet, one of the softest hitting bots in the game, is picking up shock in high level AM makes absolute ZERO sense.

The only thing that does differ in these two accounts is the masteries. So the only conclusion that I can make is that a good mastery setup makes Rhinox impossible to face. With that in mind, we send one of the guys in who can't afford the expensive masteries to kill Rhinox. The broke guy is now our Rhinox killer.


Bonecrusher -- This one is far more simple, but still bears mentioning. Due to increased crit rates from masteries, Bonecrusher is stacking bleeds like never before. He was already brutal to fight for some bots, but now that feeling is only increased.



The bottom line here, IMO, is that I would expect masteries to not be so "double-edged sword" in nature. It is one thing to have some very high end masteries have consequences for accepting their power "i.e. suicide masteries", but we are only on the lower end of the mastery tree and already are seeing these tuning issues. Can you please have the team look in to Rhinox especially, and make sure that A ) he is working as intended, and that stronger variants of Rhinox have a LARGER threshold of pain before inducing shock, and B ) that this effect I'm noticing isn't due to masteries?
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Comments

  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    And on the other offensive end of the spectrum you have Ironhide's Obliteration which should now be renamed Mild Second-Degree Burn.

    He's still useful in AM where masteries aren't found on opponents, but in Arena and Raid he's not the bot he used to be.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Synthwave wrote: »
    And on the other offensive end of the spectrum you have Ironhide's Obliteration which should now be renamed Mild Second-Degree Burn.

    He's still useful in AM where masteries aren't found on opponents, but in Arena and Raid he's not the bot he used to be.

    I find he still hits hard just not as often, which is to be expected with defensive masteries being employed. You have to make the decision if you want to combat it with extra offensive masteries.

    If he's your main bot, tailor your skill tree to reflect that, just realize you may have to give up damage prevention to do it.
  • TotherkinsTotherkins Posts: 299
    I don't have an issue when I face rhinox that being said I'll proc shocks due to goofing up and mistaking a heavy or a special. But it's working for me. Bonecrusher has a couple of counters(not just mv1) and he's rough but I think he's manageable with proper planning.

    This is just my experience...this isn't me saying it isnt broken just saying I haven't seen anything wrong with it on my account but I do know lots of people hate facing rhinox in my alliance.
  • tekkn1kaltekkn1kal Posts: 430
    Like I said, it may very well be a specific combination of masteries... however, either way you slice it, a 3* ratchet shouldn't be getting shocked on light hits at high levels of AM. This is a bot that takes well over 100 hits to kill sharks, he shouldn't proc shock unless if you heavy or special.

    BTW -- Sidebar ... Ratchet can proc shock off the AOE around his SP2 even if he doesn't hit with the actual damaging hits. This seems broken/unintended as well.
  • You need a shooter for rhinox. Energy based bots. He has a small window when his shield is down. That's when you go in hard. Avoid getting shot too. It's not broken. It's equivalent to fighting megs or sideswipe with a small window to Attack. The diff is that the shock damage you get is more painful than a swideswipe evade and counter punch
  • We understand how he works. There is supposed to be a threshold where as long as you stay under said threshold when hitting his shields you can remove them safely, then go ham. Then his shield comes back and you repeat.

    Well aware how he is supposed to work. The issue is that he was developed before they had masteries. Now with masteries, even the weakest of bots will trigger shock if you have one of 3 different masteries. I used to take Rhinox down with ease... now he is a huge annoyance, all because I spent $$$ to buy Kabam's new cash cow.

    It is one thing to say "you need to bring abc bot in order to take down xyz bot"... but to say that you need to respec your masteries just to take down one node, or even worse -- make one guy not take any of the decent masteries so that he can be your designated Rhinox killer -- that is nonsense. This approach makes no sense because you would expect that they WANT you to buy masteries, not avoid them because they make you ineffective against certain bots.

    If you think that it makes zero sense that content might need to be tweaked after adding in masteries that completely change the game, then I don't know what to say to you.
  • @Kabam Miike would it be possible from someone from the team to address this? Surely it would make sense to fine tune certain things after the addition of masteries.

    Tell me to bring the right bot for a fight all day, I fully support and agree with that concept. But to have two or three of the best masteries that anyone fighting in high end content should likely have, be deal breakers for Rhinox seems like a backwards business model for you to sell masteries.

    Maybe I'm not being specific enough:

    Courage -- If you have courage, especially if you were inclined to spend the money to get 5/5, taking any bot who is already under 50% highly increases your chances of pulling shock. At the same time, fighting Rhinox and going under 50% can quickly take the fight downhill and melt you pretty fast.

    Counterpunch -- This is far and away the worst one. All this one takes is getting the buff and the successive hit. Even the "best" bots to bring to a Rhinox fight will suffer shock with this one.

    Starseeker -- Least likely to affect shock, but certainly exacerbates the problem if you have the other two masteries.


    I can understand the concept of "not all masteries are going to be good against all bots", but the idea of multiple masteries that can all individually make it impossible to fight a certain bot makes little sense.

    I also can't with good conscience request 3 of my guys to gimp their masteries just so they can fight one bot for us.


    Now, if I'm just crazy here, and none of this is impacting the ability to fight Rhinox properly, please let me know. I would much prefer that to be the case, because that would just mean that a simple adjustment could improve the fight for myself and others. However, I find it hard to believe that is the case, because Rhinox was one of the easiest fights for me before the masteries hit.
  • Hey All,

    Sorry for sleeping on this post. I should let you know that I have taken this to the team. I don't know what will come of it, but we regularly have conversations about Balance of bots and mods, and now masteries as well. This includes how they interact with each other, and making sure that we don't accidentally break any part of the game.

    We don't typically act on these things very quickly, and let it play out a little bit, but I'm gonna make sure that the team sees this thread right now.
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