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I hate raids now

Shockwaves_jdjcjdjxShockwaves_jdjcjdjx Posts: 105
edited September 2017 in General Discussion
I dont like the changes to the raid event rewards plz bring back the crystal

I hate raids now 51 votes

Bring back crystals
86%
AmanoJKLSpidey076tekkn1kalLJW7621Timmy2ChainzMegaKuppCakeMark174UlkaurCandKaneSoulforged666Stitch626DavienAnubisBlazinhobbsHoldonKrugaPredacon_OrderJoker69Gunz0 44 votes
Stay with 3 star reward
13%
MustangjonFrench_BakerNightchrisFaithz17LegacyTheAppWunWun420Laytrax 7 votes
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Comments

  • Cant we keep both??
  • Shadowind_Prime13Shadowind_Prime13 Posts: 250
    edited September 2017
    Bring back crystals
    Follow me!
    #BringBackFeaturedCrystalsOnRaidStore
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 2,949
    Bring back crystals
    I want those featured crystals back, they're pretty decent compared to PBCs, now Kabam just wants more money so they replaced them with 3* bot who you can only can once(they're also pretty hard to get for beginners)
  • Bring back crystals
    Mustang over here trolling the poll ...
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    Bring back crystals
    raids now suck.. waste of time.
  • ZapperZapper Posts: 186
    Bring back crystals
    Unfortunatley I agree, raids are worse then before.
  • Joker69Joker69 Posts: 345
    Bring back crystals
    Cmon kabam bring back the featured crystals in raid store
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    edited September 2017
    Bring back crystals
    Gonna avoid raids for time being unless if it's good. T3 spark shards event was excellent. Please bring more of such events instead of stupid 3* bot for 10k chips!
  • Bring back crystals
    Agreed with the most. There is no more points to play hard raids. T3 spark event was your best idea at this moment.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited September 2017
    It amuses me that I made a version of this poll the first time the "temporary" change to the raid store was made, and it got taken down because it was considered a petition.

    And I agree that the only solution is to put both options in the store, since some people actually think the 10k shards for a 3* feature bot is an improvement, which I can't comprehend.

    Therefore I can't vote for either of the options presented.

    Moral of the story... Be careful what you wish for.
  • Odie21Odie21 Posts: 209
    The problem is this, this topic was created on 9/8 and it has a little over 300 views (not taking into consideration that people that posted are coming back to see what else is said) in 4 days. The only way to really make a "push" for ANY in game change is for more players in-game (that don't currently visit this forum) to visit this site and voice their opinions.
  • I would like to see the 3* bot switched for a crystal that has 3 or 4 different 3* bots and a small chance of a 4* version of those bots, make it 9,500 chips. Max purchase would be 2.
    Keep a 2* option of a single bot with a max purchase of 3. Up the cost to 2500 on those.
    Give the option of holding chips till the same offer cycles back around or selling for gold. This should get more players into raiding because there's options. Right now there's a lot of players that have no use for what you are offering.
  • I really like the idea of keeping our character chips and repeating the character raid event so eventually we can get the 3* bot.
  • Bring back crystals
    Terminal wrote: »
    Best solution I can think of is:

    1. Reduce 3* to like.. 5-7k chips? Limit is 1 anyway.

    2. Increase 2* limit to 10 so people can actually forge it into the 3* and get another and sig it.

    3. Bring back character crystals with a limit of 5 instead of 10, with the following costs;
    10k, 15k, 20k, 25k, 30k, 35k (115k total).

    You guys realize that this 3* change exists BECAUSE of the asinine requests to make the feature crystals more attainable?

    You clearly don't understand how their business model works. They decide what max value they can give you for free. Then they take that "value" and determine a prize model that will allow a certain % to gain a portion of the prize, up to a certain amount scaling along with the % of people that can gain the higher levels.

    When you say "hey we can't get all of those crystals, this is stupid!!" their response is never going to be "oh, we should give them more stuff for free!".

    Their response will ALWAYS be "okay, they don't like this, we need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a completely different prize that fits within the allotment we have to give them for free, because this one isn't working."

    ... and then you end up with a 3* crystal that you have to grind your butt off for instead.

    Like Manthro said, be careful what you wish for, or as I would say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth! WE HAD IT GOOD BEFORE, and you guys screwed it up, and now you still want MORE, MORE, MORE!!
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited September 2017
    tekkn1kal wrote: »
    Terminal wrote: »
    Best solution I can think of is:

    1. Reduce 3* to like.. 5-7k chips? Limit is 1 anyway.

    2. Increase 2* limit to 10 so people can actually forge it into the 3* and get another and sig it.

    3. Bring back character crystals with a limit of 5 instead of 10, with the following costs;
    10k, 15k, 20k, 25k, 30k, 35k (115k total).

    You guys realize that this 3* change exists BECAUSE of the asinine requests to make the feature crystals more attainable?

    You clearly don't understand how their business model works. They decide what max value they can give you for free. Then they take that "value" and determine a prize model that will allow a certain % to gain a portion of the prize, up to a certain amount scaling along with the % of people that can gain the higher levels.

    When you say "hey we can't get all of those crystals, this is stupid!!" their response is never going to be "oh, we should give them more stuff for free!".

    Their response will ALWAYS be "okay, they don't like this, we need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a completely different prize that fits within the allotment we have to give them for free, because this one isn't working."

    ... and then you end up with a 3* crystal that you have to grind your butt off for instead.

    Like Manthro said, be careful what you wish for, or as I would say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth! WE HAD IT GOOD BEFORE, and you guys screwed it up, and now you still want MORE, MORE, MORE!!

    I've been saying this for a while.. unfortunately when you try and logically reason with stupid, stupid always wins.

    Now we have an all or nothing raid store item where you either grind your face off to get it for free, or have to spend way too much energon for a 3* bot. I much preferred my 4-5 moderately attainable feature crystals which took a reasonable amount of effort over this current system.

    I literally only raid to get T1a essence now, and it's not even a priority for me.
  • tekkn1kal wrote: »
    You guys realize that this 3* change exists BECAUSE of the asinine requests to make the feature crystals more attainable?

    You clearly don't understand how their business model works. They decide what max value they can give you for free. Then they take that "value" and determine a prize model that will allow a certain % to gain a portion of the prize, up to a certain amount scaling along with the % of people that can gain the higher levels.

    When you say "hey we can't get all of those crystals, this is stupid!!" their response is never going to be "oh, we should give them more stuff for free!".

    Their response will ALWAYS be "okay, they don't like this, we need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a completely different prize that fits within the allotment we have to give them for free, because this one isn't working."

    ... and then you end up with a 3* crystal that you have to grind your butt off for instead.

    Like Manthro said, be careful what you wish for, or as I would say, don't look a gift horse in the mouth! WE HAD IT GOOD BEFORE, and you guys screwed it up, and now you still want MORE, MORE, MORE!!

    This is complete nonsense.

    Kabam changed it because they wanted to change it. They also said the change was temporary, and never explained what part actually was temporary.

    Trying to blame players for it is hilarious and absurd.

    Also, even by your own definition of the business model it doesn't fit or equate to the old one.

    Your rage and venom is completely misdirected.

    I understand being angry about a change, but turning to the players and pointing the finger and saying 'it's all your fault' for something that isn't good in the game and phrases like 'be careful what you wish for' implying that Kabam is some kind of evil genie/cursed monkey paw that will twist whatever you say into the worst way possible while fulfilling the wish is completely juvenile.

    If you have a problem with mechanics in the game, take it up with the game company, not the player base.

    Far bigger things have had much more discussion and either haven't been changed or took months to change.

    As someone with so much keen inside knowledge into how the company apparently works, you would also know that it takes time to plan and implement changes, there's a process they go through. Which means they made the decision well before there was any discussion about the attainability of crystals.
  • TrailfireTrailfire Posts: 590
    edited September 2017
    I have to agree with @Terminal here. @tekkn1kal , you're basically saying any player feedback results in the opposite of the requested change. In that case, why are you here giving feedback? Or are you playing some reverse psychology game? Seriously...

    The only requests about raid store featured crystals were "please make them a permanent feature, but make the cost not escalate to impossible-to-obtain levels".

    How you guys turn that into, "it's all your fault that featured crystals are gone, and now raids are a waste of time"... there's a career in politics for you with the ability to contort logic like that

    Raids are still fine. You still get t1a from them. You actually can get more t1a than ever, which is great! Do a few more than needed for the t1a and you also get a recent-release 3* which is neat. Not having featured crystals available is a bummer, because they were popular. Having them available at a reasonable price in addition to what's currently available would be excellent

    I think most of us are on the same page there
  • As an additional solution, it would be nice if there was something in between the 1000 chip and 10,000 chip offerings.

    Seems like such a waste of chips if you're stuck in the middle of the two rewards. If a person can't make it to 10,000 there is no incentive to continue and they're actually discouraged from continuing because any character chips they earn are lost and converted to less gold than 4-8 hours of 2 stars on base defence.

    Yet another solution, I saw someone else suggest, is changing the chips into generic 'character chips' and not be removed after the event.

    I think this would be great, it encourages people to play more because whatever happens their efforts won't be wasted. It actually gives people some incentive and motivation to work on something and build it up.

    There's already a limit of 1 so people can't abuse it either.

    I think this option could make lots of people happy and encourage people to play a lot more than the current system, without taking anything away from the current system. I would love to see this change implemented.

    It would also be an extremely easy option to implement, very little change is required.
  • Generic character chips is essentially what I said about 2 weeks ago too, except I called it fungable (basically the same thing).
    Otherwise we're gonna have inventories full of old unusable character chips. ugh
  • Bring back crystals
    Trailfire wrote: »
    I have to agree with @Terminal here. @tekkn1kal , you're basically saying any player feedback results in the opposite of the requested change. In that case, why are you here giving feedback? Or are you playing some reverse psychology game? Seriously...

    The only requests about raid store featured crystals were "please make them a permanent feature, but make the cost not escalate to impossible-to-obtain levels".

    How you guys turn that into, "it's all your fault that featured crystals are gone, and now raids are a waste of time"... there's a career in politics for you with the ability to contort logic like that

    Raids are still fine. You still get t1a from them. You actually can get more t1a than ever, which is great! Do a few more than needed for the t1a and you also get a recent-release 3* which is neat. Not having featured crystals available is a bummer, because they were popular. Having them available at a reasonable price in addition to what's currently available would be excellent

    I think most of us are on the same page there

    Well... to be fair, I didn't ever say raids were a waste of time.

    But yes, I do strongly believe that the complaints about not being able to attain all of the feature crystals led to the 3* guaranteed crystal. The only other explanation for it is that they felt that the feature crystals were giving us too much, so they took them away, and it was only a complete coincidence that they changed it to 3* crystals instead.

    I do think that the levels they had for attaining the feature crystals were pretty bonkers, but it was pretty clear that they didn't expect anyone to ever claim some of the higher tiers.

    Now, I am not at all suggesting to not provide feedback, or that players should expect the opposite of their requests, however, if you pretty much like what they are giving you, it might be a good idea to just take what you've got. This is simply from years of experience in MCOC, and a feeling that Kabam can take good intentions and turn it in to a negative result. The opposite of the requested change? Not exactly, at least in their mind.

    I believe that they see the 3* guaranteed crystal as a positive change. Keeping in mind, they have nothing like the feature crystals being offered in raids in MCOC, I always felt that we were both fortunate and very lucky to have the opportunity to get those crystals for free. So, from the moment that people started complaining about the setup, I was concerned. When changes came down, it may have been confirmation bias, but it was definitely frustrating either way.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited September 2017
    Player feedback was indeed at least partially responsible for the removal of feature crystals, anyone thinking otherwise is just trying to fool themselves.

    Kabam was always looking for a way they could remove feature crystals from the raid store and we gave them the opportunity and replacement item that would most likely appease us.

    There were always two player proposed ideas concerning raid store items all the time, and neither had anything to do with each other:

    1) Players incessantly complaining the cost was too high to get all feature crystals, so lower the cost or remove half of them. Lowering the cost to allow players to achieve all 10 was never gonna happen, and neither was removing half. The closest thing to a realistic solution was @Trailfire comment about making the cost curve flat, but it got lost in the insanity. The entire idea was centered around value, enticing players to spend energon to get them all.

    2) Players constantly asked why they couldn't direct purchase a feature 3* bot the same way they could purchase a 2*.

    Kabam looked at these two ideas and saw an opportunity to remove free access to a highly desirable item in the game (something they had wanted to do for a long time), and replace it with an item a large portion of the community said they wanted, while making it more difficult to obtain in order to spark spending.

    By doing this, they managed to get enough player buy-in to avoid a massive backlash by the majority of the community.

    You really think this was coincidence? Don't be naive. They went for the lowest common denominator just to get a "hmm we'll try it" attitude from players and had zero intention of ever changing it back.

    That's what players are upset with. This was called a TEMPORARY change.

    It's clear as crystal the community has spoken and we want it changed back but it's not gonna happen, it never was.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    edited September 2017
    Manthro wrote: »
    Kabam looked at these two ideas and saw an opportunity to remove free access to a highly desirable item in the game (something they had wanted to do for a long time), and replace it with an item a large portion of the community said they wanted, while making it more difficult to obtain in order to spark spending.

    By doing this, they managed to get enough player buy-in to avoid a massive backlash by the majority of the community..

    If my experience has taught me anything while playing this game, it's that if they want to do something, they'll do and they don't care about the backlash. There's been several examples of this since the game launched, I didn't play in beta but there's probably examples from there as well.

    Changing to single opponent raids had a massive backlash, it hasn't seemed to have worried them. If they wanted to remove crystals anyway, which is what both you and tek say, there's really no point putting any focus and blame on players for 'giving Kabam an opportunity'. They would have done it regardless, just like all the other changes.

    As players and as a community, we really need to be more united with common goals against a common ene.. ahem, and a common purpose.

    I think there's lots of valuable contributions and experience from many of the seasoned players in this game, all of the level 30s and 40s plus etc.. with lots of great ideas that can improve the game and make it better and more popular.

    If we support each other more and focus our energy more, we may have a better chance of influencing change.

    At the moment, it feels like some of our collective strength is lost infighting and arguing amongst ourselves.

    I've been through all the mobile transformers games. I want one to finally stick and not be a complete screw up (I guess that other mobile one now has stuck around a bit, but it had so many problems at the start I quit it early). I'm haunted by legends, battle tactics and rising. I'm here because I love transformers, whatever the game, if it's transformers I'm going to play it. The core idea and basic mechanic is fun, I want the game to stay, I want it to grow and I want it to be successful.
  • Hey Commanders!

    First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and opinions on Raids! Although we do appreciate the discussion at hand, it is slowly derailing and becoming non-constructive. Please make sure to remember to stay constructive and on topic as we are looking forward to hearing your feedback!
  • Bring back crystals
    Crystals deserve to be brought back, they shot the idea down like it was nothing. 3-Stars take way too much time and chips. I mean it's not like my entire week is free.
  • But dont limit only one 2*. I think you should be able to get more if your not able to make the goal of 10,000. At least you could us the medals for something instead of losing them, or getting gold after its done. Which I haven't even got the gold from the starscream event...
  • Bring back crystals
    Give the 2* a limit of three, keep the impossible 3* if you want, and please please please #BringBackFeaturedCrystalsOnRaidStore
  • Bring back crystals
    Yeah true! The game must
    #BringBackFeaturedCrystalsOnRaidStore
  • Bring back crystals
    @Manthro Find me any post suggesting anything even close to what Kabam implemented. If anything, the change they made makes getting a featured bot even less accessible than before.

    You seem to think that as long as the "system" works well for you, then no one else should voice their opinions on the matter. The fact of the matter is, there was an issue with the costs Kabam put for the Featured Crystals once you got past crystal 5 or so. So much so, that I have a hard time believing that ANYONE (including big spending whales) were buying all 10 available raid crystals. The complaints were NEVER about the crystals themselves, or how they worked. The complaints were on having something in the game that no one was interested in obtaining.

    Stop your pity party of trying to blame others for voicing their opinions on game mechanics for Kabams actions. You think a handful of players who probably spend little to no money on this game is what made Kabam change the entire system? Use your head. Their new system forces (most) players to spend energon in order to get the 3* bot. The old system didnt because people could obtain at least a handful of crystals with minimal raiding. Getting people to spend Energon = $$$$ for Kabam.

    Based on your logic, people should not voice their opinions on anything, because if Kabam changes something, then its clearly the fault of the players. Maybe, just maybe, the fault here lies with Kabam and their desire to squeeze cash out of people any way they can.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    edited September 2017
    Stay with 3 star reward
    You guys have taken this off topic and attacking manthro, and well I don't usually defend the guy.
    He's saying you guys asked for change got change and not happy with results.

    Kabam listened looked at options from their side thought this looked good on paper and implemented.

    Raid system has changed already 4 times since beta or more, and will prolly change more again

    When players complain and ask for change be a bit more constructive and offer solutions not just say waaaah we can't afford top 5 crystals in event, now everyone is suddenly content with getting only 5 and not able to obtain the top 5 crystals. As it was.

    So how does reverting it fix the complaining?

    And my vote was done as first devils advocate vote since it was so lopsided
This discussion has been closed.