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So it finally happened! 4 way AM logjam

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  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    Congrats to the four alliances! You really blew it out of the water for this and amazed us, truly. I wanted to drop in earlier and say that but kept getting swept up in other things!

    But good job and keep up the hard work! We're definitely in deep talks about what to do with all of this and where to go from here. So thanks for all that you do!

    Why “deep” talks? Silly. It’s a simple fix, no reason to go and Kabam it up.

    Better to have a long term fix that works rather than a short term fix that will show it's face in a few weeks though
  • RocsolidRocsolid Posts: 302
    Steff wrote: »
    respect to you all perso I do not know if I will be able to play at your level

    You can get anywhere you strive for bro!
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 374
    I imagine they'll raise the difficulty, and add more fights to the map to make it harder as alliances progress thru the levels.

    Outside of revamping the map completely again for the third time, I don't know what else they can do long term.
  • JKLJKL Posts: 997
    that1guy wrote: »
    I imagine they'll raise the difficulty, and add more fights to the map to make it harder as alliances progress thru the levels.

    Outside of revamping the map completely again for the third time, I don't know what else they can do long term.

    Replace every bot on the map with Blaster, Galvatron and Arcee and add a 1000% range speed mod on top of whatever is there already. 😲
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 374
    edited June 2019
    What's wrong with you? 😒
  • JKLJKL Posts: 997
    that1guy wrote: »
    What's wrong with you? 😒

    Ha ha, it was just a joke. (Please don't get any ideas Kabam 😂)
  • Canuck33Canuck33 Posts: 244
    You forgot mirage also. lol
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    No one promoted a short term fix. A long term fix is still simple. Everyone wants the levels increased and tiered rewards. The current shared rewards only make the third place team happy and really do nothing to push the top alliances. We have been coasting for months now so the 4 way tie is exactly what needed to happen.
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    Congrats to the four alliances! You really blew it out of the water for this and amazed us, truly. I wanted to drop in earlier and say that but kept getting swept up in other things!

    But good job and keep up the hard work! We're definitely in deep talks about what to do with all of this and where to go from here. So thanks for all that you do!

    Why “deep” talks? Silly. It’s a simple fix, no reason to go and Kabam it up.

    Better to have a long term fix that works rather than a short term fix that will show it's face in a few weeks though

    What do you mean tiered rewards? The same as it is now but with extra difficulty levels and a greater quantity of each item or different map rewards altogether for higher difficulty?
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited June 2019
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    No one promoted a short term fix. A long term fix is still simple. Everyone wants the levels increased and tiered rewards. The current shared rewards only make the third place team happy and really do nothing to push the top alliances. We have been coasting for months now so the 4 way tie is exactly what needed to happen.
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    Congrats to the four alliances! You really blew it out of the water for this and amazed us, truly. I wanted to drop in earlier and say that but kept getting swept up in other things!

    But good job and keep up the hard work! We're definitely in deep talks about what to do with all of this and where to go from here. So thanks for all that you do!

    Why “deep” talks? Silly. It’s a simple fix, no reason to go and Kabam it up.

    Better to have a long term fix that works rather than a short term fix that will show it's face in a few weeks though

    What do you mean tiered rewards? The same as it is now but with extra difficulty levels and a greater quantity of each item or different map rewards altogether for higher difficulty?

    I think what he means is (and i could be wrong):

    Rewards based off difficulty played/points as opposed to rank.

    This way, anyone playing a level of difficulty can earn the highest rewards, because rank no longer matters.

    This would probably motivate many alliances to use energon to earn better rewards instead of laying it safe, and it could increase spending.
  • SkBirdmanSkBirdman Posts: 391
    Manthro wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    No one promoted a short term fix. A long term fix is still simple. Everyone wants the levels increased and tiered rewards. The current shared rewards only make the third place team happy and really do nothing to push the top alliances. We have been coasting for months now so the 4 way tie is exactly what needed to happen.
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    Congrats to the four alliances! You really blew it out of the water for this and amazed us, truly. I wanted to drop in earlier and say that but kept getting swept up in other things!

    But good job and keep up the hard work! We're definitely in deep talks about what to do with all of this and where to go from here. So thanks for all that you do!

    Why “deep” talks? Silly. It’s a simple fix, no reason to go and Kabam it up.

    Better to have a long term fix that works rather than a short term fix that will show it's face in a few weeks though

    What do you mean tiered rewards? The same as it is now but with extra difficulty levels and a greater quantity of each item or different map rewards altogether for higher difficulty?

    I think what he means is (and i could be wrong):

    Rewards based off difficulty played/points as opposed to rank.

    This way, anyone playing a level of difficulty can earn the highest rewards, because rank no longer matters.

    This would probably motivate many alliances to use energon to earn better rewards instead of laying it safe, and it could increase spending.

    But thats basically the Milestones right now. I agree something needs to be done, its not fair to use a random tiebreaker in particular.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    Manthro wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    No one promoted a short term fix. A long term fix is still simple. Everyone wants the levels increased and tiered rewards. The current shared rewards only make the third place team happy and really do nothing to push the top alliances. We have been coasting for months now so the 4 way tie is exactly what needed to happen.
    DaveJL wrote: »
    Jscrilla wrote: »
    Congrats to the four alliances! You really blew it out of the water for this and amazed us, truly. I wanted to drop in earlier and say that but kept getting swept up in other things!

    But good job and keep up the hard work! We're definitely in deep talks about what to do with all of this and where to go from here. So thanks for all that you do!

    Why “deep” talks? Silly. It’s a simple fix, no reason to go and Kabam it up.

    Better to have a long term fix that works rather than a short term fix that will show it's face in a few weeks though

    What do you mean tiered rewards? The same as it is now but with extra difficulty levels and a greater quantity of each item or different map rewards altogether for higher difficulty?

    I think what he means is (and i could be wrong):

    Rewards based off difficulty played/points as opposed to rank.

    This way, anyone playing a level of difficulty can earn the highest rewards, because rank no longer matters.

    This would probably motivate many alliances to use energon to earn better rewards instead of laying it safe, and it could increase spending.

    Reading back, cos I was half asleep at the time, I think he means the same system but increasing the difficulty available to a high enough level where the tiers actually matter again. Makes sense to me anyway, but I don't think just increasing the slider works without also increasing the rewards proportionately for the extra effort. I'm not sure I'd want to play harder than 120 for the rank 1-3 rewards right now
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    Yeah anything beyond 120 is gonna need revamped milestone and rank rewards. Honestly, the whole system beyond top 3 needs an overhaul. They need to make it so that the other 15 or so alliances in the Top 20 can push higher and make things more competitive.
  • Bi1b0BagginsBi1b0Baggins Posts: 1,049
    Not that I would benefit from such a change, but is it time for some skill-based metric to be used to calculate points used in AM ranking? I haven't played in a while, but AW in MCOC had bonuses based on how quickly you defeated an opponent. Assuming Kabam was able to detect cheating, I'd welcome such a change.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Not that I would benefit from such a change, but is it time for some skill-based metric to be used to calculate points used in AM ranking? I haven't played in a while, but AW in MCOC had bonuses based on how quickly you defeated an opponent. Assuming Kabam was able to detect cheating, I'd welcome such a change.


    Not a huge fan of this... The mods on AM lanes already force action in a way that is unnatural.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited June 2019
    JKL wrote: »
    that1guy wrote: »
    What's wrong with you? 😒

    Ha ha, it was just a joke. (Please don't get any ideas Kabam 😂)

    If you recall, I made such a joke on the previous map about Wasp, which resulted in wasp appearing as a miniboss with almost exactly the mods I described 🤣🤣🤣

    Don't underestimate the dev team!

  • Bi1b0BagginsBi1b0Baggins Posts: 1,049
    Manthro wrote: »
    Not that I would benefit from such a change, but is it time for some skill-based metric to be used to calculate points used in AM ranking? I haven't played in a while, but AW in MCOC had bonuses based on how quickly you defeated an opponent. Assuming Kabam was able to detect cheating, I'd welcome such a change.


    Not a huge fan of this... The mods on AM lanes already force action in a way that is unnatural.

    I agree it would add frustration to an already buggy and inconsistent experience, but it could also foster competition as well. Funny thing is top 4 probably don't ever get KO'd, so it wouldn't even affect them.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Manthro wrote: »
    Not that I would benefit from such a change, but is it time for some skill-based metric to be used to calculate points used in AM ranking? I haven't played in a while, but AW in MCOC had bonuses based on how quickly you defeated an opponent. Assuming Kabam was able to detect cheating, I'd welcome such a change.


    Not a huge fan of this... The mods on AM lanes already force action in a way that is unnatural.

    I agree it would add frustration to an already buggy and inconsistent experience, but it could also foster competition as well. Funny thing is top 4 probably don't ever get KO'd, so it wouldn't even affect them.

    You think we don't use items?

    🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • Canuck33Canuck33 Posts: 244
    Instead of basing it on the fight length, having bonus points for a perfect in AM and/or having a death total at the end of AM would be cool.
    For example, Omega only dies 20 times through AM and Kaon dies 40, Omega gets points based on a scale up to an additional 200k or something. So it doesn't affect the rank so much that running a lower difficulty and getting all perfects could bump you ahead of an ally running higher D. But it would be a great form of breaking ties and adding competition.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Canuck33 wrote: »
    Instead of basing it on the fight length, having bonus points for a perfect in AM and/or having a death total at the end of AM would be cool.
    For example, Omega only dies 20 times through AM and Kaon dies 40, Omega gets points based on a scale up to an additional 200k or something. So it doesn't affect the rank so much that running a lower difficulty and getting all perfects could bump you ahead of an ally running higher D. But it would be a great form of breaking ties and adding competition.

    Hmmm... This flies in the face of Kabam logic, though.

    More items used should mean more points 😆

    Therefore the worse you fight, the more you are rewarded 😉

    They don't want us spending less, they want us spending more 🤪
  • Canuck33Canuck33 Posts: 244
    If the scenario came about, the more items used the more points that would be horrible for the game though lol. You'd have allies fighting amongst themselves to pressure people into using items thus making more people quit faster ;)
    So in theory if we promote skill there would be happier players, and the more players, the more cash flow. lol :D
  • Bi1b0BagginsBi1b0Baggins Posts: 1,049
    Canuck33 wrote: »
    If the scenario came about, the more items used the more points that would be horrible for the game though lol. You'd have allies fighting amongst themselves to pressure people into using items thus making more people quit faster ;)
    So in theory if we promote skill there would be happier players, and the more players, the more cash flow. lol :D

    I think you missed the sarcasm. We are saying that rewarding players for not using items would go against Kabam's business model. I definitely agree with your last statement. People are quitting due to boredom, not because they feel challenged by the content.
  • Canuck33Canuck33 Posts: 244
    Haha no I got it, just throwing out a positive message to kabam so maybe they consider doing something cool,,,
  • Faithz17Faithz17 Posts: 842
    Seriously, what accounts for point differences when everyone is doing the same level? Is Dino/ JKL’s theory correct? Two weeks ago, ColdA did 120*4 and got 22,000,917. Last week, 4 alliances did 120*4 and got 22,000,921-922 with 2 alliance tying for 1st and 2 alliances tying for 3rd. This week, 4 alliances did 120*4 again and somehow our scores range from 22,000,921-927 and no tie. Is this Kabam’s way of preventing a tie? Insert random points when everyone is running the same level?

    ColdA deserves the reward for top 3 just as much as the rest of us, since everyone ran the same levels. Hope you make it right this week too @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious

    Also, please explain your math. What do these random points come from? Fights with/ without advantage? Perfect fight? Healers? Fights that take two bots to kill? Do you guys actually know or need help in figuring this out?
  • Faithz17 wrote: »
    Seriously, what accounts for point differences when everyone is doing the same level? Is Dino/ JKL’s theory correct? Two weeks ago, ColdA did 120*4 and got 22,000,917. Last week, 4 alliances did 120*4 and got 22,000,921-922 with 2 alliance tying for 1st and 2 alliances tying for 3rd. This week, 4 alliances did 120*4 again and somehow our scores range from 22,000,921-927 and no tie. Is this Kabam’s way of preventing a tie? Insert random points when everyone is running the same level?

    ColdA deserves the reward for top 3 just as much as the rest of us, since everyone ran the same levels. Hope you make it right this week too @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious

    Also, please explain your math. What do these random points come from? Fights with/ without advantage? Perfect fight? Healers? Fights that take two bots to kill? Do you guys actually know or need help in figuring this out?
    We're definitely going to give them the rewards again, because they did the same work. We said that's what we'd do last time.

    Right now, there is obviously something wrong with how these points are being calculated, and we're trying to figure out exactly what that is so we can fix it. If you take out all of the Fights on the Map, you should be getting the same point total.

    Until we get this fixed, we'll continue to do what we've been doing by sending the extra rewards after, and looking for a longer term solution.
  • Mufc14Mufc14 Posts: 643
    Well said @Faithz17
  • Faithz17Faithz17 Posts: 842
    @Kabam Miike great to hear that you guys will honour the rewards for ColdA.

    As for the points, we’ll see how we can help you figure this out, like take screen shots of all our fights and compare them, maybe if any bot is giving inconsistent points. I’ll check in with the rest.
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike great to hear that you guys will honour the rewards for ColdA.

    As for the points, we’ll see how we can help you figure this out, like take screen shots of all our fights and compare them, maybe if any bot is giving inconsistent points. I’ll check in with the rest.

    You think they don't have any tables/MySQL/statistics to look at if them want to?
  • massimo51massimo51 Posts: 88
    It’s random folks. Move along. Everyone’s still getting the same rewards which is all that really matters in the end. They said it last week, so anyone’s sense of frustration or attempt to sleuth the randomness of a few points is just pointless. Lol get it “point-less”. :D Never mind. That was a bad joke.

    I will say it is nice though observing all the silence in the chatrooms today. B)
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