In Defence of Hound

Let me preface this by saying that I do think Hound could still use a slight buff to his melee attacks in some form or another, and there's been that many complaints that I'm sure Kabam will have another look at Hound in the coming weeks.

That being said, I think Hound is suffering from Galvatron Syndrome - he needs (needed in Galvatron's case) a slight tweak, but a lot of the difficulties people are coming across are more about adapting to a bot with a pretty specific playstyle.

Firstly, there's been a few posts in threads I've seen where people have been arguing that Hound being a ranged specialist is redundant, because TFTF doesn't favour ranged combat. Put simply, if your ranged game isn't a match for your melee game, then you probably need to work on your ranged game. Firing off one or two shots at a time is preferable, as firing three ranged shots results in a slightly different animation where bot movements are delayed for a fraction of a second. This can stick you in place if you miss ranged attacks and the opponent dashes in to counter. Once you get out of that habit, dodging back and forth while firing off ranged shots becomes pretty easy, and this is a skill that becomes essential when you're using Hound, especially with his signature ability unlocked.

The main thing with Hound is that, despite him being a big 'ol bot, his effectiveness doesn't come from brute force. Hound's real strength lies in knowing and using his abilities to full effect. For example, people have been complaining about how useless his burn debuffs are, but no one seems to be mentioning the fact that burning enemies take 50% more critical damage from Hound's ranged attacks. Want to stack up some big damage? Hit an enemy with SP1 and give them a burn debuff for 15 seconds (numbers are coming from my R3 4* so bear with me). Follow up with a heavy attack and you've got a +20% critical hit rate from the resistance debuff (and a bit of armour) for 6 seconds. Back off, switch to precision ammo (+40% crit rate) then start dodging and weaving as you fire off shots. If you can land a few hits when his sig ability activates, then even better. This also works with SP3, where I'm currently getting a 40% crit rate buff for 28 seconds. That's a lot of damage potential if you apply it right.

The above describes a particular scenario, obviously, but you get the idea - Hound is the kind of bot where some (read: most) of his abilities set up others, like Rhinox's melee bonus from bleeds or Ratchet's increased stun chance on SP1 from shock stacks. It takes some getting used to, but when you've got the technique down, the damage potential is huge. All of this is before mentioning the fact that Hound has some of the best synergies in the game, and his precision ammo counters any and all Evade abilities (which the enemy AI will lean on when it gets chance, much to their disadvantage), as well as Mirage and Windblade's invulnerability to ranged hits during heavy attacks, giving a key advantage against two of the best bots in the game.

Again, I'm not saying that Hound is 100% fine as he is - a minor buff is definitely in order to make him more accessible. The reason I refer to 'Galvatron Syndrome' is that I saw the same thing after his featured month - he had enormous damage potential but because he had a slightly unorthodox playstyle that was hampered by a couple of niggling issues (getting dark burn out of his SP2 was an exercise in frustration) a lot of people dismissed him out of hand, blaming any and all difficulties they had getting used to fighting with him on the bot. Hound will get better, I'm sure of it, but for the meantime I'd suggest people give him a try with an open mind, and allow themselves to try adjusting their play style a little to see if they get something more out of him.

Comments

  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 974
    Video please.
  • C0M1C5C0M1C5 Posts: 15
    Nice, I've yet to try Hound out, so having some info on his play style will help me to adapt to him easier.
  • NightgauntNightgaunt Posts: 102
    Video please.

    I'm in work at the moment, so I won't be able to upload until later, but I'll record all my matches with Hound and pick out some vids that show what I mean. Hope that helps.
  • DonApisDonApis Posts: 162
    Nightgaunt wrote: »
    Video please.

    I'm in work at the moment, so I won't be able to upload until later, but I'll record all my matches with Hound and pick out some vids that show what I mean. Hope that helps.

    Awesome. Thanks in advanced.
  • NightgauntNightgaunt Posts: 102
    @KillMasterC @DonApis

    Here's an assortment of vids from recent gameplay. They're not my best efforts to be honest, and I think most are from story missions or raids with lower PI bots, but I was more interested in showing some of the technique to fighting more at range, and using some of Hounds abilities. I'll try to get something better recorded at some point that gives a fairer example, but I didn't wanna keep people waiting forever.











  • Black_ThoughtBlack_Thought Posts: 115
    Lower bot pi isn’t showcasing hound. I believe people know how to play and how to use him. The problem is he sucks against higher pi bots. I been playing around with him in raids and running some ROK mix master with my r3 duped hound. I’m utterly disappointed. Not going to go into anymore else as there is a thread on how bad he is. But, he does have some great synergies.
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    Lower bot pi isn’t showcasing hound. I believe people know how to play and how to use him. The problem is he sucks against higher pi bots. I been playing around with him in raids and running some ROK mix master with my r3 duped hound. I’m utterly disappointed. Not going to go into anymore else as there is a thread on how bad he is. But, he does have some great synergies.

    Agree.. please share videos of him in higher PI bot battles... your Hound is 2.2k PI so battles near that PI or above him will only then be qualified as showing him being good... if he does well there.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,838
    Try sniper mastery with hound. Plays into his skills nicely.
  • NightgauntNightgaunt Posts: 102
    Fair points - I was wanting to show the mechanics of how to use him more than actually 1v1-ing a matching bot to prove the point, but the vids there are a bit half-baked to be honest, and regardless of the thinking behind it they are lower PI bots. I'll upload something better when I get chance.
  • kranderskranders Posts: 303
    I usually like to play underrated bots but Hound is pretty bad. I've experimented applying burn, switching ammo etc. and it's just clunky. Ammo switch should be faster and his signature ability is awful. It's too often that the enemy AI goes into crazy sidestep mode avoiding ranged hits so his buff expires. It doesn't even have enough time to really apply to specials. His roll should do something like further increasing crit chance on ranged attacks. It would be better to apply more burns than trying to land multiple ranged attacks.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 564
    Yeah he's pretty awful. I tried to develop a play style with him but now I just play normal and get the W in arena and leave it at that. At least Kickback doesn't suck!
  • I really, really hope Kabam will make an improvement towards Hound's overall damage output. I want to like him so badly that I would even consider placing him among my top three warrior bots. His synergies are stated by the others here are great. It's just that his damage output is less than ideal when compared to the other warriors. Bludgeon and Arcee deals a bit more damage than him. Hopefully he'll be updated soon.
  • kranderskranders Posts: 303
    Hound needs a good amount of work to be viable. His burn is still very unreliable to be used in AM. It's disappointing that the only bot still good for pyrophobia is IH. I've landed 6+ ranged with no burn application.

    Since his burn isn't his damage output make it something like SW's heavy where it doesn't stack but reapplies. Or do something like increased chance to burn for a three shot volley or change his roll to increased crit rate.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,838
    edited April 2
    kranders wrote: »
    Hound needs a good amount of work to be viable. His burn is still very unreliable to be used in AM. It's disappointing that the only bot still good for pyrophobia is IH. I've landed 6+ ranged with no burn application.

    Since his burn isn't his damage output make it something like SW's heavy where it doesn't stack but reapplies. Or do something like increased chance to burn for a three shot volley or change his roll to increased crit rate.

    Sorry, but I disagree on this one. I've been using my r2 unduped Hound and I think his damage output is just fine.

    At r2 his burn damage on inferno ammo is 25% over 10 seconds... At r2.

    In comparison, IH has 30% damage over a shorter duration at r4 for extra burn stacks beyond the first one. Yeah, it takes longer to get the damage in with hound, but it's comparable at r2 already.

    I don't know what it increases to as he ranks up, but I'm sure it gets nasty, that is a long debuff. Without stacking it loses some pop.

    I don't find it tough to apply burns at all if I lead with a heavy attack to lower Crit resistance. He gets an armor buff on heavies as well.

    I'm not sure why players dislike him. I think he's a fun bot to play once you get used to his skillset.

    He's not terrible, he just different like Mixmaster.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 564
    Like Sideswipe, just different
  • BobdolleBobdolle Posts: 22
    edited April 2
    Manthro wrote: »
    In comparison, IH has 30% damage over a shorter duration at r4 for extra burn stacks beyond the first one. Yeah, it takes longer to get the damage in with hound, but it's comparable at r2 already.

    Comparing a crit from a heavy attack to a regular ranged attack lul
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,838
    edited April 2
    Bobdolle wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    In comparison, IH has 30% damage over a shorter duration at r4 for extra burn stacks beyond the first one. Yeah, it takes longer to get the damage in with hound, but it's comparable at r2 already.

    Comparing a crit from a heavy attack to a regular ranged attack lul

    You realize that the burn damage itself is based off basic melee, right? Ignore the big crits of IH and compare burn vs burn. Hound has a much higher attack rating which translates into more damage on the burns overall.
  • BobdolleBobdolle Posts: 22
    Manthro wrote: »
    You realize that the burn damage itself is based off basic melee, right? Ignore the big crits of IH and compare burn vs burn. Hound has a much higher attack rating which translates into more damage on the burns overall.

    Did not but did you realize the initial burn does about 60% of his attack and the extra burn stacks are 30% of his attack?
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,838
    edited April 3
    Bobdolle wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    You realize that the burn damage itself is based off basic melee, right? Ignore the big crits of IH and compare burn vs burn. Hound has a much higher attack rating which translates into more damage on the burns overall.

    Did not but did you realize the initial burn does about 60% of his attack and the extra burn stacks are 30% of his attack?

    Pretty sure I covered that:


    Manthro wrote: »

    At r2 his burn damage on inferno ammo is 25% over 10 seconds... At r2.

    In comparison, IH has 30% damage over a shorter duration at r4 for extra burn stacks beyond the first one.


    What I'd like to know is what the burn damage percentage is on an r4 or r5 Hound so we can get a true comparison


  • Leader1Leader1 Posts: 36
    Who the heck will r5 hound tho?
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,838
    edited April 3
    Leader1 wrote: »
    Who the heck will r5 hound tho?

    apkncpnhtakw.png

    60% of attack as burn damage over 8 seconds at r5. Add to that +50% Crit damage on burning opponents for those 8 (or more) seconds.

    That's huge.

    I think players aren't giving high level Hound enough credit and they need to learn how to utilize him.
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    Manthro wrote: »
    Leader1 wrote: »
    Who the heck will r5 hound tho?

    apkncpnhtakw.png

    60% of attack as burn damage over 8 seconds at r5. Add to that +50% Crit damage on burning opponents for those 8 (or more) seconds.

    That's huge.

    I think players aren't giving high level Hound enough credit and they need to learn how to utilize him.

    cool glad to know that.. might R4 him one day as I managed to get his dupe during featured month. =)

    didn't know his attack from burn goes up as he climb the ranks..
  • kranderskranders Posts: 303
    Manthro wrote: »
    kranders wrote: »
    Hound needs a good amount of work to be viable. His burn is still very unreliable to be used in AM. It's disappointing that the only bot still good for pyrophobia is IH. I've landed 6+ ranged with no burn application.

    Since his burn isn't his damage output make it something like SW's heavy where it doesn't stack but reapplies. Or do something like increased chance to burn for a three shot volley or change his roll to increased crit rate.

    Sorry, but I disagree on this one. I've been using my r2 unduped Hound and I think his damage output is just fine.

    At r2 his burn damage on inferno ammo is 25% over 10 seconds... At r2.

    In comparison, IH has 30% damage over a shorter duration at r4 for extra burn stacks beyond the first one. Yeah, it takes longer to get the damage in with hound, but it's comparable at r2 already.

    I don't know what it increases to as he ranks up, but I'm sure it gets nasty, that is a long debuff. Without stacking it loses some pop.

    I don't find it tough to apply burns at all if I lead with a heavy attack to lower Crit resistance. He gets an armor buff on heavies as well.

    I'm not sure why players dislike him. I think he's a fun bot to play once you get used to his skillset.

    He's not terrible, he just different like Mixmaster.

    I will disagree back. First my comment was less about damage output and more on Hound still not being a good alternative to use on Pyrophobia. I've landed his heavy debuff and still landed 6-8 shots with no crit to burn. That's too unreliable for the set up involved. Perhaps if his heavy was 100% on the debuff but I've also landed multiple heavies with no debuff. You've also completely ignored his crit ammo. Since he does play different if you're going to utilize him completely then switching ammo types would factor in more which is why his burn lasts so long. Applying a single burn stack more consistently and switching to crit ammo would be a strategy.

    Using an r2 vs r5 in arena gives you a pretty lengthy fight. Considering that quite a lot of the time I land 1 or 2 burns an entire fight leaves a lot to be desired.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 181
    edited April 3
    Yeah, hound is pretty hot garbage. The fact that he's so range focused just makes him ineffective already, especially fighting Vs high level AI. Try to justify him all you want, but he doesn't offer anything great the other warriors already offer.

    As for ih Vs hound, the main point of ih is the guaranteed burn damage that can stacks is deadly regardless of rank. Hound's doesn't even stack and it's already low in output to begin with.

    His only redeeming feature is his s2, which is pretty great in damage thanks to the potential bleed stacks.
  • KittenPrimeKittenPrime Posts: 1,128
    that1guy wrote: »
    Yeah, hound is pretty hot garbage. The fact that he's so range focused just makes him ineffective already, especially fighting Vs high level AI. Try to justify him all you want, but he doesn't offer anything great the other warriors already offer.

    As for ih Vs hound, the main point of ih is the guaranteed burn damage that can stacks is deadly regardless of rank. Hound's doesn't even stack and it's already low in output to begin with.

    His only redeeming feature is his s2, which is pretty great in damage thanks to the potential bleed stacks.
    Couldn’t have said it better
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 1,838
    Hounds burn debuffs definitely stack, lol.

    Do you even lift bro?
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 181
    They do? I don't notice it because the damage output is still garbage.

  • Darm0kDarm0k Posts: 541
    Manthro wrote: »
    Hounds burn debuffs definitely stack, lol.

    Do you even lift bro?

    I’ve seen it in gameplay videos, but I’ve never had it happen. Then again, I only have an unduped r2 and it’s very rare for me to even get one stack of burn. This is after a heavy and I have the crit mastery maxed.
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