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Trading bots ?

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  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Vindictive wrote: »
    Waste of time even typing on this convo lol

    Lol, I wanna AGbandit come in and give another reason as hilarious as "both bots must be equal" as a bulletproof way to police trading.

    Just don't level up bots you want to trade.
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    And the problem with someone trading in an untouched 4* Mirage for a 4* IronHide would be....?

    Just not seeing the problem here.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited July 2017
    AGBandit wrote: »
    And the problem with someone trading in an untouched 4* Mirage for a 4* IronHide would be....?

    Just not seeing the problem here.

    Le sigh.. this goes all the way back to my original point on creating tons of alternate accounts. There are points in the game where you get free 4* crystals and now with the crystal arena, it would make trading even more broken.

    Since auto fight is available in the arena, it doesn't even take effort to hit milestones on multiple accounts.

    All it takes is an extra tablet/device and a little patience to program a macro. You could be AFK the entire time you are farming.

    The disappointing part of it all is that you think any of your "bulletproof checks and balances" are new and haven't been thought of 6237474894473372 times already.

    Would you like me to go on?

    Let it go.

  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    Yes please. You're still not highlighting the problem.
    See below for the example of nothing wrong happening:
    • I create two accounts, (A) & (B)
    • Account A is my favorite account but account B just pulled a 4* IronHide
    • Now I'm going to trade with myself using account B to boost A... but... but... OH NO, according to AGBandit's bulletproof trading rules... I just can't. How very sad.
    • Finally, a month later, account A pulls a 4* Mirage. Now I can trade within both accounts and boost my favorite ,mwahahaha, but... but... OH NO, according to AGBandit's bulletproof trading rules, I was impatient and had upgraded my 4* IrohHide to a Level 1/20. So now I HAVE to do the same to account A's 4* Mirage to make them even.
    • Finally, after another week of upgrading account A's Mirage, I can trade with account B for Ironhide.

    Account A & B BOTH started with ONE 4* Bot apiece and BOTH accounts REMAIN with ONE 4* Bot AFTER the trade.

    So where was the problem again?
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited July 2017
    You're not even giving reasons why your "system" is bulletproof after I shredded it to pieces, you're just saying it's bulletproof.

    Here's yet another simple problem with your plan.

    I can keep pulling and trading the same bot I don't want to the same account as a dupe. Never having to rip apart my roster. I'll have a bunch of alt accounts with Sig 99 sideswipes, arcees, bludgeons and ratchets (for those that just don't like him for some reason) in short order.

    Just stop, man.

    Obvious troll is obvious.
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    Let me define bulletproof for you.
    Bullet - Flaw or action that proves an unfair advantage is being gained.
    Proof - My rules put in place that prevent any of those flaws from happening.

    I keep showing you the armor (Bot's must be equal, trades will consume crystal or energon charges, etc.) But I have yet to see ONE SINGLE BULLET penetrate those firewalls. Shredded to pieces? Just because you say its shredded doesn't make it so. I on the other hand keep showing how it still stands. So where's the bullet again?

    IF you have the time to A) create multiple accounts, B ) Maintain them enough to pull high enough bots to trade with and C) obey MY bulletproof rules for trading... then guess what? You EARNED what you worked for.
    IF you want those 10 precious favorite bots from accounts B through K. Then guess what? You better have 10 equally powered bots in account A to trade with. Do you not understand this?

    Once you jump through those hoops, accounts B through K will still have their 10 bots and account A will still have it's 10 bots. How does this benefit anyone other than the player getting a name they prefer on their favorite account roster? And even then, how does that benefit them exactly?

    I'm beginning to see the problem here. You ran out of logical ways to debunk my points so now you're having to resort to using the troll card.

    Just start up again once you can answer the aforementioned questions...



  • DzSlootsDzSloots Posts: 87
    Dude just give it up already. It is never going to happen in this game. Your "bulletproof" argument is just a waste of time to be honest. Again, it will never happen!
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    You're missing the point. It's NOT to MAKE it happen. It's to PROVE that if implemented correctly, it's viable. I've proven that. AND yes, it's ONLY a waste of time if you close your mind off to the possibility.
  • DzSlootsDzSloots Posts: 87
    Dude I see what you're trying to get at here. I understand luck would still play a huge factor for people IF this were to ever happen so it would take a while to even build the account in the first place. So as you said if this isn't to make it happen then yes it's a waste of time. There's no point to this post after you just said that. You just need to accept the fact this won't ever happen.
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    YOUR mind is closed to the possibility. But to Ghost22, Arcee_1321 and many other silent accounts (gee I wonder why they're scared to speak up... hmmm?), it's for all of them.
  • DzSlootsDzSloots Posts: 87
    It's actually not as I just stated I understand what you're trying to get at. No need to be so defensive guy.
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    I apologize good sir. Not an excuse, but perhaps given the vitriol I've encountered you could see how I would easily mistaken you on the side of the "over-reaction" camp.
  • KingChris2KingChris2 Posts: 101
    This idea trading bots is dumb. If you like the trading feature go play other game's that has it.
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    Ooh word play with no substance. That's original. I can play too.
    This idea of NOT trading bots is dumb. If you like the trading feature, speak up and voice your opinion because this is a community forum of shared valued ideas.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    I just explained to you how you can trade the same bot over and over to the farm account, leaving him with one bot in the roster while building up another.

    Keep ignoring the inherent flaws in your trading system if you like, I don't really care.

    It's not viable because it can easily be abused, and anyone that can add 2+2 already knows this.

    And the irony is, the players pushing for trading will be the very first to complain it's completely unbalanced, unfair, and biased towards spender advantage if it was to ever be implemented after seeing the results after as little as two weeks.

    It will not help anyone catch up to other alliances, fight on equal terms, or anything of the sort. Trading has the exact opposite effect, as a matter of fact. This was (and still is) the main rebuttal to trading in this game. No matter how you slice it, there's the issue of balance in the game economy or player/alliance powercreep.

    The only type of trading system I have ever seen that maintains game economy and ever had any kind of success is the one in Mabinogi Duel, and it isn't even a trading system. It's more like a marketplace.

    If you want to see how that works, go nuts.

    Even then, there's all kinds of issues with it. Not a perfect system by any stretch, and it is far more thought out than yours.
  • GochaBROGochaBRO Posts: 30
    Hey very good idea ;)
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    You "explained" that someone could trade the same bot over and over to a farm account, leaving him with one bot in the roster while building up another.

    This statement alone is FULL of holes. Here they are:
    1) "same bot over and over" This ASSUMES that the Primary account is going to achieve pulling the SAME bot over and over again. And as we all know, the crystal pulls are random.
    2) "to the farm account". Oh good! So if it goes to the farm account, you do know the primary account is GIVING up a bot of EQUAL worth, correct?
    3) "leaving him with one bot in the roster". I'm assuming you mean the farm account correct? You realize that the user will now have to pull a completely new worthy bot in this farm account because he's obviously not going to want the previously discarded bot from this farm account ever again right?
    4) "building up another" You referring to his primary account being built up? He had to TRADE a bot of equal worth to get a different bot. Meaning if he's got 1 desired bots and 4 undesired,.. AFTER the TRADE (with farm accounts) he's STILL going to HAVE 5 bots in his primary account. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I keep NOT ignoring any assumed "flaws" with my system but YOU'RE the one that are avoiding answering the questions I proposed in my previous post to you.

    Still looking for your 2+2... you haven't pinpointed it yet.

    Your Irony comment? A strawman. I can prove it.
    I'm pushing for trading... AND I WILL NOT complain that this system is completely unbalanced, unfair and biased towards spender advantage. Not in two weeks, two months or two years. Another member's happiness through spending on his account(s) has ZERO bearing on my own. Tell me... tell me how their account influences, hinders or bother's mine. You can't can you?

    "Balance in the game economy or player/alliance powercreep."
    I'm going to throw you a bone on this one. You MIGHT be on to something, but before I debate it, I need you to elaborate with a hypothetical scenario as it relates to this. This COULD be the first sensible point you've brought up so far.

    Again, just saying a system is far more thought out than my own is just that, a saying. Go back and expand on that bone I threw you, and if done well enough, I'll concede how weak my trading system could be. All the same though, I must stress that my caveat was always to show how the trading system in of itself could be flawless. NOT it's effects on other gaming aspects.
  • DzSlootsDzSloots Posts: 87
    you may think the idea is good but most of the player base would not want this in the game. There's many ways where this will effect your game. When it comes to alliance wars, alliance quests, and arenas. Most of the player base is not willing to spend tons of money on the game but those that are, are going to dominate the game. If this was ever a thing, the same users would always be on top in the arena and the alliances with those types of users would always win the best rewards. Thus throwing off the balance of the game for a solid 99% of the player base.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited July 2017
    Sooooo, you're just going to keep arguing nothing and spin doctoring until I don't reply and claim victory.. Lol, I see your game.

    As for breaking the game economy, this was said in the very first responses to this thread, by several people.

    I have already in fact, given you several examples of how trading breaks the game economy through auto farming, multiple accounts, roster stacking, rotating unwanted bots around accounts to create trade bait on the main account for the target bot... You just can't accept it.

    If you have 10 accounts, all pulling 2 guaranteed 4* crystals a month (which is entirely possible)

    You have a potential pool of the entire 4* bot roster available to trade to the main account by virtue of cycling base level bots around from every account until you acquire them all in one fell swoop.

    Sure, you might pay your crystal fees and have to take the time out of the game for a week to complete all those trades, but once it's done it's done, and you have a mega advantage over the majority of the player base.

    Then you build up the next account the same way, and all of a sudden you think "hey I can sell this account to noobplayer for $$$, maybe I won't get caught"

    And voila your game economy is blasted into nothingness. Kabam stops making money and sunsets the game.

    I've been saying all this repeatedly, but you just keep refusing to accept the reality of what happens with trading systems.

    You can't claim a trading system is flawless when it wrecks the core economy, player progression and power level within of the game. These are the fundamentals you must keep in check with a trading system, you can't just ignore them. If a trading system ruins them, the system is flawed.

    They are not mutually exclusive.
  • KingChris2KingChris2 Posts: 101
    edited July 2017
    Let's say I'm going for a new bot and I don't get it in my main account, but in my second account I get the bot. All I have to do trade a 1* bot to my second account for the bot I'm after.

    It will make the game very unbalanced and it will cost money to Kabam. This why trading bots is a dumb idea ever.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    AGBandit, while your system is fairly well thought out, especially the "like to like" trading bit, the issue is that those top 5% whales will very much have an impact on everyone else's experience, whether it be by creating an unassailable 21k base, maxing 4* bots to guarantee top prizes in events, or using ten "one time only" offers to combine into one unholy powerful bot.
    It's an idea, and in an ideal world it could be a good idea, but people are terrible about clawing for every advantage they can no matter who suffers.
  • AGBanditAGBandit Posts: 113
    So I need a little clarification Dz... the ones that would dominate the alliance related missions would have the MOST bots? The most POWERFUL bots? Or both?
    Realize that by the very nature of the trading protocols, they can NOT increase in bot numbers no more than someone with a single account. In fact, other members having MORE bots than myself is typically due to a) more time spent playing and/or b) real money spent on crystals. So this wouldn't necessarily be a new concept.
    IF you meant more powerful bots,... again, my trading protocols do NOT allow for gaining power advantages.

    So if someone is dominating the alliance related missions, it would have ZERO to do with my trading system.

    Besides, the DIE-HARDS that currently make the top 10% are the main ones you'd worry about "abusing" any flaw in my system... and for what? So they can go from the top 10% to the top 5%? Us average players would NOT feel the effects.
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