Running Away Isn’t Fun...

I’m noticing a design trend on special missions and it’s an awful one.

You know what I want to do when I play a fighting game? Spend 3/4 of the match running away...

Oh wait... the opposite of that!

This seems to be basically the “challenge” of every mod now.

Run away for X seconds while unstoppable or instant kill. Run away for X second while power gain, or instant s3 attack. Run away while enemy takes no damage heals from all damage taken. Repeat ad naseum and often with even more cheese ability layered on top.

I can handle this style of play ... I just...

Don’t enjoy it. You aren’t making your game more challenging... you’re making it less fun.

Comments

  • Yes, agree. Frustrated.It 's making game--UNFAIR--. It is not funny.
  • DrShotgunDrShotgun Posts: 1,640
    I agree also, yet it keeps happening. Kabam says "expert isn't for everyone", no kidding, because most everyone thinks it's not fun.
    How about make something that's challenging but not all out cheating.
  • SaYnTSaYnT Posts: 87
    I'll hop on and agree with you as well, I just finished expert 100%. The feeling of accomplishment was completely negated by all the frustration I had to endure trying to finish and deal with some of the unfair tactics the AI uses during fights with the mod buffs.
  • What's the design intent with these mod additions, to make the game harder?
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    What's the design intent with these mod additions, to make the game harder?

    There are ways to make it harder without making it unfun.

    Give bots on a certain line a speed boost, or random status advantages or other boosts. The current system is just tedious and lazy.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 347
    Like it or not, dodging attacks is a part of this game, and quite frankly a part of many other fighting games.

    Either learn and adapt, or don't attempt expert difficulty. The spotlights are doable, and focus of expert is for it to be challenging and meant to test your ability as a player. This may come at the cost of it being fun for you, and remember what is fun is entirely subjective.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    that1guy wrote: »
    Like it or not, dodging attacks is a part of this game, and quite frankly a part of many other fighting games.

    Either learn and adapt, or don't attempt expert difficulty. The spotlights are doable, and focus of expert is for it to be challenging and meant to test your ability as a player. This may come at the cost of it being fun for you, and remember what is fun is entirely subjective.

    The entire point of this post is exactly to communicate "I do not find it fun". As stated clearly, I am not commenting toward the difficulty. I am handling expert fine without issue or item usage.

    What am struggling to have is fun. They are doubling down on a boring game mechanic. No other fighting game has this amount of running away.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 347
    My point wasn't directed at you entirely, but essentially those that are complaining about evading enemy attacks, something that is entirely present and a core aspect of the game in many different modes. I find that the complaints are largely related to the difficulty of the spotlight missions on expert and the mods players have to face, and not how "unfun" the missions are. Look at @Booster_Blue and @SaYnT and they hit exactly what I wrote, matter of fact one of them asked if the intent of the mods was to make it harder - it's called expert for a reason. Again, what is "fun" or "challenging" is entirely subjective; if you find yourself frustrated by the mods, either adapt or learn, or don't even bother until you feel you're fit to tackle them on.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    edited February 2018
    that1guy wrote: »
    . Again, what is "fun" or "challenging" is entirely subjective; if you find yourself frustrated by the mods, either adapt or learn, or don't even bother until you feel you're fit to tackle them on.

    ...or leave feedback on the developers forum that the direction they are taking the game is less fun.

    I can speak only to my opinion; that’s what this thread is. And in my opinion the whole X seconds unstoppable thing is getting massively over played and isn’t a fun core game mechanic. It wasn’t so bad when used sparingly, but not it’s about half the nodes. It’s over played and just kinda boring game design.

    The entire purpose behind this thread has absolutely nothing to do with difficulty. Heck, I’m done already with zero items used and actually found this mission over all easier than the last two. On the other hand, I found it a heck of a lot less enjoyable.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 347
    Fair enough, I do apologize if my posts sound abrasive; I guess I've given up hope on how the game has been handled over the course of its life, and I take it for what it as the culmination of its development has led us to this point.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    that1guy wrote: »
    Fair enough, I do apologize if my posts sound abrasive; I guess I've given up hope on how the game has been handled over the course of its life, and I take it for what it as the culmination of its development has led us to this point.

    No worries, not abrasive.

    So many posts are on the “this is too hard” category that it’s easy to lump everything into that boat. I’m agreeing with you though, some direction on the way things are going aren’t great... that’s part of why I tried to make a more constructive thread on an actual gameplay element.

    Kabam have actually done some solid moves of late. Expert missions in the first place was a nice add. The ability to grind out the new 4 star I actually think is a sweet move, nice to not just be p2play on that one. But yeah, they’ve certainly made some missteps too... they’ve created a have/have not user base with the way they’ve managed the economy, they really stepped in it on map3s design and device performance is just horrid.

    I see enough good to keep playing, but we really need to call them on the bad as it happens.
  • That MV1 absolutely demolished my R3 team. Each hit was 650 points. I was dead before I could even react. CENSORED the dev who thought that was a good idea.
  • DonApisDonApis Posts: 461
    That MV1 absolutely demolished my R3 team. Each hit was 650 points. I was dead before I could even react. CENSORED the dev who thought that was a good idea.

    I don't think that r3 is suitable to fight against boss in expert mode.
  • DonApis wrote: »
    That MV1 absolutely demolished my R3 team. Each hit was 650 points. I was dead before I could even react. CENSORED the dev who thought that was a good idea.

    I don't think that r3 is suitable to fight against boss in expert mode.

    I was doing fine until chapter 4. All of the other bosses didn't give me that much trouble. IH gave me some issue but that was mostly my fault. This MV1 isn't even manageable at R3.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    DonApis wrote: »
    That MV1 absolutely demolished my R3 team. Each hit was 650 points. I was dead before I could even react. CENSORED the dev who thought that was a good idea.

    I don't think that r3 is suitable to fight against boss in expert mode.

    I think an R3 team should probably be able to do the easy path to completion, but 100%ing certainly wouldn't be easy.
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    don't keep running away then.. find an opening to land 3 hits to stun him when the bot has that unstoppable mod active... Didn't find those bots or boss that difficult if you are to time properly.
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    Davien wrote: »
    don't keep running away then.. find an opening to land 3 hits to stun him when the bot has that unstoppable mod active... Didn't find those bots or boss that difficult if you are to time properly.

    Sigh... one last time, it has nothing to do with difficulty, as I think I've now explained 4 times.

    It's not just that one mod either and it's the only one that has a counter built in, which actually would be along the lines I'm looking for, it's at least interesting/fun. But in this quest it seemed fully a third or so mods have either massive power gain on a timer, unstoppable on a timer, energon shield on a timer. They are milking an unfun mechanic.
  • DavienDavien Posts: 758
    edited February 2018
    Serapth wrote: »
    Davien wrote: »
    don't keep running away then.. find an opening to land 3 hits to stun him when the bot has that unstoppable mod active... Didn't find those bots or boss that difficult if you are to time properly.

    Sigh... one last time, it has nothing to do with difficulty, as I think I've now explained 4 times.

    It's not just that one mod either and it's the only one that has a counter built in, which actually would be along the lines I'm looking for, it's at least interesting/fun. But in this quest it seemed fully a third or so mods have either massive power gain on a timer, unstoppable on a timer, energon shield on a timer. They are milking an unfun mechanic.

    I've completed expert 100% once again with 200 energon used (on boosts and potions only on the last Hound mission). Some players even did it for free by keep repeating expert till they are able to complete it with little flaw as possible. I do not have such patience hence rather spend the energon.

    The bots I use for expert spotlight.. some of them are forged close to lvl 100. I do not have any Rank 5 4* bots yet btw. Focus more on strengthening the right bots + find synergy between them to make the fights easier:

    87ba2d3f-6375-4a6e-937e-e7f9c3b65920_zpspwnhl27s.png
  • SerapthSerapth Posts: 157
    Davien wrote: »
    I've completed expert 100% once again with 200 energon used (on boosts and potions only on the last Hound mission). Some players even did it for free by keep repeating expert till they are able to complete it with little flaw as possible. I do not have such patience hence rather spend the energon.

    The bots I use for expert spotlight.. some of them are forged close to lvl 100. I do not have any Rank 5 4* bots yet btw. Focus more on strengthening the right bots + find synergy between them to make the fights easier:

    87ba2d3f-6375-4a6e-937e-e7f9c3b65920_zpspwnhl27s.png

    ...and? I don’t really understand how this is particularly relevant. I completed this mission without spending a cent. Heck I don’t think I lost more than a bot or two the entire time doing my run through. I actually found this round easier than last round. I’m not talking about difficulty, at all, period.

    I’m talking about fun factor. Having to spend half of your fights running away to me simply isn’t fun. Occasionally sure, but in this AM there was just sooo much of it. It’s a very negative trend toward the enjoyment of these missions.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,538
    Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to make challenging content while keeping it fun.

    The only possible way to do this would be to model spotlight enemies after the AM map 2 model... Jack up the bot stats to 4-5x normal, and don't use mods at all.

    A large portion of the player base could walk through an endless number of that type of opponent.

    The only way to make it challenging is to create absurd combinations of mod and bot abilities, and put players through the meat grinder.
  • So many thoughts
    I found this Expert the easiest of all time.
    Cause I didn’t even bother to try reflect path ones failed . This is way far less challenging then Galva time .
  • Manthro wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to make challenging content while keeping it fun.

    The only possible way to do this would be to model spotlight enemies after the AM map 2 model... Jack up the bot stats to 4-5x normal, and don't use mods at all.

    A large portion of the player base could walk through an endless number of that type of opponent.

    The only way to make it challenging is to create absurd combinations of mod and bot abilities, and put players through the meat grinder.

    I would prefer fighting an 8k PI bot with 300% health and damage than face that MV1 ever again.
  • AAGZ0921AAGZ0921 Posts: 189
    How about addressing the elephant in the room? The rewards for completing expert are absolutely crap.
  • AAGZ0921 wrote: »
    How about addressing the elephant in the room? The rewards for completing expert are absolutely crap.
    As much as i agree you have to be grateful for what we have now. Remember that expert rewards used to be worse...

  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,538
    edited February 2018
    AAGZ0921 wrote: »
    How about addressing the elephant in the room? The rewards for completing expert are absolutely crap.

    I disagree. I wouldn't say they are absolute crap, we are getting a good amount of t3b, t2a and t3c for exploration.

    I much prefer getting it from expert spotlight than grinding arenas for t3b and t2a. Allows me a couple days off from the monotony. Granted, nobody likes the superior crystal being in expert. I've only ever pulled a 3* from it.

    In fact, right now I think spotlight rewards are the most relevant and meaningful across all the game modes.
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