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Possible Bug: Motormaster special 3 ignores shielding on Awakened Wheeljack

SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
edited November 2018 in Bugs and Known Issues
I've looked through all of Motormaster's abilities and specials and can find nothing in them that would indicate he has the ability to ignore shielding with his special 3.

This happened while fighting the Motormaster in section 3 of Alliance Mission. My awakened Wheeljack was at 88% HP when Motormaster gained a special 3 and triggered it, which still kept Wheeljack from triggering his first shield right up until Motormaster transforms into his alt mode and lands on you. He then ignored two shields and knocked Wheeljack down to around 37% HP.

From what I understand of how both bots work, this should not be happening because Wheeljack has no armor to break and Motormaster has no damage over time effects to bypass Wheeljack's shielding. When Motormaster landed on Wheeljack, it should've capped the damage right at the 75% mark while leaving all the debuffs on him.

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious I'd appreciate a look into this. Thanks!

Comments

  • I hope they keep it if it is a bug a another counter to wheeljack is helpfull
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    I hope they keep it if it is a bug a another counter to wheeljack is helpfull

    lol, I sympathize, but there's plenty of DoT bots out there that can already eat through his shields, plus the Dark Burn bots and nullifying bots. Trust me, there of plenty of bots to do the job out there.
  • Transformers forged to bug
  • Jazz444Jazz444 Posts: 2,021
    @Kabam Miike can you guys look into Motor Master ? please
  • JKLJKL Posts: 997
    After looking into it, working as intended. :D
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited November 2018
    Wheeljacks shield stops further damage, but it does not cutoff/cap big burst damage.

    Because the damage inflicted goes past the two shield trigger points all at once, the shield does not prevent the damage dealt. Think about it. You went from 88% directly to 37%, there is no trigger point. Now... If the initial first hit of MM brought you to 75% then the shield would have triggered before the final drop, and it would have prevented the damage.

    It's a similar situation with Mv1 Sig and Demo Megatron Sig.

    Large amounts of instant damage bypass the ability.

    As for the armour break... You can inflict armour break on bots without armour. It essentially lowers their defense rating. The difference is that some bots specifically require an armour buff to break armour (UM) while others can always inflict it (Dinobot)
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    edited November 2018
    So Mv1 on d80 can one-shot a duped WJ with his sp1? From what I remember, WJ can sustain it on 75%.

    OK I checked MM's sp3: Crashing into the opponent inflicts +150% additional damage. So it's that additional damage that penetrates the shield. Same as Megatronus's dark burn.
  • Darm0kDarm0k Posts: 2,485
    Manthro wrote: »
    Wheeljacks shield stops further damage, but it does not cutoff/cap big burst damage.

    Because the damage inflicted goes past the two shield trigger points all at once, the shield does not prevent the damage dealt. Think about it. You went from 88% directly to 37%, there is no trigger point. Now... If the initial first hit of MM brought you to 75% then the shield would have triggered before the final drop, and it would have prevented the damage.

    It's a similar situation with Mv1 Sig and Demo Megatron Sig.

    Large amounts of instant damage bypass the ability.

    As for the armour break... You can inflict armour break on bots without armour. It essentially lowers their defense rating. The difference is that some bots specifically require an armour buff to break armour (UM) while others can always inflict it (Dinobot)

    It should stop it when the shield activates regardless on how much damage the attack deals. I’ve gotten hit with Waspinator’s S2 before where the first hit got me to around 77% and the second blast only took me to 75% when the shield activated.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Darm0k wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    Wheeljacks shield stops further damage, but it does not cutoff/cap big burst damage.

    Because the damage inflicted goes past the two shield trigger points all at once, the shield does not prevent the damage dealt. Think about it. You went from 88% directly to 37%, there is no trigger point. Now... If the initial first hit of MM brought you to 75% then the shield would have triggered before the final drop, and it would have prevented the damage.

    It's a similar situation with Mv1 Sig and Demo Megatron Sig.

    Large amounts of instant damage bypass the ability.

    As for the armour break... You can inflict armour break on bots without armour. It essentially lowers their defense rating. The difference is that some bots specifically require an armour buff to break armour (UM) while others can always inflict it (Dinobot)

    It should stop it when the shield activates regardless on how much damage the attack deals. I’ve gotten hit with Waspinator’s S2 before where the first hit got me to around 77% and the second blast only took me to 75% when the shield activated.

    The difference is that Motormaster inflicts instant damage, Wasp does not. Read his sp3
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    Go look at the wording on Wheeljack's signature ability. It says:

    If an enemy attack would reduce Wheeljack's health below 75%,50%, or 25%, Force Shield will activate, reducing ALL (emphasis mine) damage from enemy attacks by 100%.

    And notice it says "would", as in the ability anticipates (for lack of a better word) incoming damage as it hits and caps the damage to the aforementioned percentages of HP. So just because it's "big burst" damage doesn't mean it bypasses the shield(s). The shields should still catch ALL non-DoT damage.

    I really do think it's just a bug because so far the Force Shield has stopped every other "big burst" damage from every other bot out there, including Optimus Prime's sp3.

    But let's wait and see what the judges have to say, though they've been noticeably quiet on the matter so far.

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious have you had a chance to recreate this in the sandbox yet?
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    Additional damage doesn't count as direct attack, that's all.
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    Additional damage doesn't count as direct attack, that's all.

    If an enemy attack would reduce Wheeljack's health below 75%,50%, or 25%, Force Shield will activate, reducing ALL damage (pretty sure all means all, including additional) from enemy attacks by 100%.
  • Jazz444Jazz444 Posts: 2,021
    Motor Master is starting to look good to battle Wheeljack
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    edited November 2018
    Synthwave wrote: »
    Additional damage doesn't count as direct attack, that's all.

    If an enemy attack would reduce Wheeljack's health below 75%,50%, or 25%, Force Shield will activate, reducing ALL damage (pretty sure all means all, including additional) from enemy attacks by 100%.

    I'm pretty sure Megatronus's dark burn can burn through the shield. AND we know DOTs melt thru it as well. So there's a clear difference between wording and coding. If I'm to guess how programmers do it, it will be:
    • Damage catetory 1 (normal damage): melee, heavy, ranged, etc which are DIRECT
    • Damage catetory 2 (additional damage): DOT, dark burn, instant shock
    Now he puts MM's sp3 into catetory 2. But I agree, he shouldn't.
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    Synthwave wrote: »
    Additional damage doesn't count as direct attack, that's all.

    If an enemy attack would reduce Wheeljack's health below 75%,50%, or 25%, Force Shield will activate, reducing ALL damage (pretty sure all means all, including additional) from enemy attacks by 100%.

    I'm pretty sure Megatronus's dark burn can burn through the shield. AND we know DOTs melt thru it as well. So there's a clear difference between wording and coding. If I'm to guess how programmers do it, it will be:
    • Damage catetory 1 (normal damage): melee, heavy, ranged, etc which are DIRECT
    • Damage catetory 2 (additional damage): DOT, dark burn, instant shock
    Now he puts MM's sp3 into catetory 2. But I agree, he shouldn't.

    Yeah I stated above that dark burn, nullify with instant shock damage and basic DoT effects will and should go through the shield, but really all "additional damage" is, is just extra damage.

    I think the best and most straight-forward way to see this is when Motormaster lands his final hit on his special 3, the damage numbers are always either white (basic damage) or yellow (critical damage).

    There hasn't ever and there never will be any red numbers when he lands. It's these red damage numbers only that are able to instantly penetrate Wheeljack's shielding and Motormaster simply doesn't have them.

    So I think it's safe to say it falls under the ALL DAMAGE phrasing found in Wheeljack's signature and is therefore a bug that needs to be patched. I hope the dev team agrees with this logic.
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 994
    Synthwave wrote: »
    Synthwave wrote: »
    Additional damage doesn't count as direct attack, that's all.

    If an enemy attack would reduce Wheeljack's health below 75%,50%, or 25%, Force Shield will activate, reducing ALL damage (pretty sure all means all, including additional) from enemy attacks by 100%.

    I'm pretty sure Megatronus's dark burn can burn through the shield. AND we know DOTs melt thru it as well. So there's a clear difference between wording and coding. If I'm to guess how programmers do it, it will be:
    • Damage catetory 1 (normal damage): melee, heavy, ranged, etc which are DIRECT
    • Damage catetory 2 (additional damage): DOT, dark burn, instant shock
    Now he puts MM's sp3 into catetory 2. But I agree, he shouldn't.

    Yeah I stated above that dark burn, nullify with instant shock damage and basic DoT effects will and should go through the shield, but really all "additional damage" is, is just extra damage.

    I think the best and most straight-forward way to see this is when Motormaster lands his final hit on his special 3, the damage numbers are always either white (basic damage) or yellow (critical damage).

    There hasn't ever and there never will be any red numbers when he lands. It's these red damage numbers only that are able to instantly penetrate Wheeljack's shielding and Motormaster simply doesn't have them.

    So I think it's safe to say it falls under the ALL DAMAGE phrasing found in Wheeljack's signature and is therefore a bug that needs to be patched. I hope the dev team agrees with this logic.

    I agree with you but logic doesn't always seem to work around here.

    As far as I can tell, the 5* Tech power rate synergy doesn't work with 4* Megatronus even though it is supposed to apply to "all lower tier teammates". People try to tell me that because his power gain is passive that it doesn't apply. That is irrelevant, it can be applied to his passive power gain rate, it is supposed to work with "all" lower tier teammates and nowhere does it specify that it only applies to "active" power gain.

    Same thing with Rhinox's shield, I've been hit with stacks of shock during specials even though bots are supposed to be "invulnerable" during specials. Then people try to talk to me about DOT this and DOT that. Again that makes no sense, bots are supposed to be invulnerable during specials according to Kabam, that is "impossible to harm or damage".

    Anyways, this isn't to change the topic, just to illustrate that logic doesn't always work here. Based on what you've described, it sounds like there is something wrong. In that case, I hope it gets fixed.
  • Red_Eyes wrote: »
    Synthwave wrote: »
    Synthwave wrote: »
    Additional damage doesn't count as direct attack, that's all.

    If an enemy attack would reduce Wheeljack's health below 75%,50%, or 25%, Force Shield will activate, reducing ALL damage (pretty sure all means all, including additional) from enemy attacks by 100%.

    I'm pretty sure Megatronus's dark burn can burn through the shield. AND we know DOTs melt thru it as well. So there's a clear difference between wording and coding. If I'm to guess how programmers do it, it will be:
    • Damage catetory 1 (normal damage): melee, heavy, ranged, etc which are DIRECT
    • Damage catetory 2 (additional damage): DOT, dark burn, instant shock
    Now he puts MM's sp3 into catetory 2. But I agree, he shouldn't.

    Yeah I stated above that dark burn, nullify with instant shock damage and basic DoT effects will and should go through the shield, but really all "additional damage" is, is just extra damage.

    I think the best and most straight-forward way to see this is when Motormaster lands his final hit on his special 3, the damage numbers are always either white (basic damage) or yellow (critical damage).

    There hasn't ever and there never will be any red numbers when he lands. It's these red damage numbers only that are able to instantly penetrate Wheeljack's shielding and Motormaster simply doesn't have them.

    So I think it's safe to say it falls under the ALL DAMAGE phrasing found in Wheeljack's signature and is therefore a bug that needs to be patched. I hope the dev team agrees with this logic.

    I agree with you but logic doesn't always seem to work around here.

    As far as I can tell, the 5* Tech power rate synergy doesn't work with 4* Megatronus even though it is supposed to apply to "all lower tier teammates". People try to tell me that because his power gain is passive that it doesn't apply. That is irrelevant, it can be applied to his passive power gain rate, it is supposed to work with "all" lower tier teammates and nowhere does it specify that it only applies to "active" power gain.

    Same thing with Rhinox's shield, I've been hit with stacks of shock during specials even though bots are supposed to be "invulnerable" during specials. Then people try to talk to me about DOT this and DOT that. Again that makes no sense, bots are supposed to be invulnerable during specials according to Kabam, that is "impossible to harm or damage".

    Anyways, this isn't to change the topic, just to illustrate that logic doesn't always work here. Based on what you've described, it sounds like there is something wrong. In that case, I hope it gets fixed.

    Yeah, Power Gain and Power Rate,, two different term, Megatronus has ZERO power rate.
    Well, they ARE invulnerable during special attack. Invulnerable means they can't be applied with Hit damage (ranged, Melee etc), it never meant they can't activate their abilities, like DoTs. Basically this is the reason Cheetor Feral Strike has point not to TRIGGER their abilities, as it's mostly available when you're ready to use Specials.

    I've witnessed myself, Megatronus Dark Burn didn't passed through His Shield, nor did Health Steal.

    And +150% Additional Damage is more like
    "you're are given +150% Melee Damage buff for that single Hit"
    So, not sure how it passes through them.
  • Manthro wrote: »
    Wheeljacks shield stops further damage, but it does not cutoff/cap big burst damage.

    Because the damage inflicted goes past the two shield trigger points all at once, the shield does not prevent the damage dealt. Think about it. You went from 88% directly to 37%, there is no trigger point. Now... If the initial first hit of MM brought you to 75% then the shield would have triggered before the final drop, and it would have prevented the damage.

    It's a similar situation with Mv1 Sig and Demo Megatron Sig.

    Large amounts of instant damage bypass the ability.

    As for the armour break... You can inflict armour break on bots without armour. It essentially lowers their defense rating. The difference is that some bots specifically require an armour buff to break armour (UM) while others can always inflict it (Dinobot)

    It trigger shield and stop all damage at exactly 75% ,not a single point down (The NanoJack logic), Basically your health bar stops at 75% for some sec(under no DoT effect).

    His shield say "AT" 75/50/25%
    While Megs/MV1 say "BELOW" 10/20%.
    This makes the difference.

    And Armor, Shield and Resistance are Separate Defenses, Together activated they filter out damage, with mitigated effect.
    Like 50% Armor, 50% Resistance. Don't give 100% protection. First it will go one of these, say armor, then remaining 50% will pass through resistance, and damage gotten is 25% of original.
    That's what I think it works like. That's why stacks mitigate.

    In case there's a 50% Armor Break, 20% Armor And 50% Resistance.
    Armor - Break = 30% Break.
    So, First Damage will be amplified by Break, 130% which pass through Resistance. And 65% of Very Original Damage will be dealt.
    In this Case, Armor Break don't count, as no matter how much damage is amplified, Shield will reduce it by All 100% = 0.
  • BaRdYaAmNBaRdYaAmN Posts: 1,506
    Nano jack's annoying, I don't mind personally
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    BaRdYaAmN wrote: »
    Nano jack's annoying, I don't mind personally

    But this is also a problem for Wheeljack without the nano-repair mastery. Motormaster's additional basic damage shouldn't be busting through one Force Shield, let alone two at once.
  • Jazz444Jazz444 Posts: 2,021
    Motor Master is starting to look good to battle Wheeljack
  • kranderskranders Posts: 479
    This is a bug. Noticed this when WJ was first released. MM simply ignores the shields.

    I'm also pretty sure that Bee s2 ignores the shields as well (note: not breaking it for shock damage but ignoring it completely). Would need to be tested more.
  • SlayerSlayer Posts: 1,085
    kranders wrote: »
    This is a bug. Noticed this when WJ was first released. MM simply ignores the shields.

    I'm also pretty sure that Bee s2 ignores the shields as well (note: not breaking it for shock damage but ignoring it completely). Would need to be tested more.

    Yes I've experienced it myself ,GS bee ignores the shield while doing Sp1 and Sp2
  • Synthwave wrote: »
    I think the best and most straight-forward way to see this is when Motormaster lands his final hit on his special 3, the damage numbers are always either white (basic damage) or yellow (critical damage).

    There hasn't ever and there never will be any red numbers when he lands. It's these red damage numbers only that are able to instantly penetrate Wheeljack's shielding and Motormaster simply doesn't have them.

    So I think it's safe to say it falls under the ALL DAMAGE phrasing found in Wheeljack's signature and is therefore a bug that needs to be patched. I hope the dev team agrees with this logic.
    This is incorrect. After I read this, I watched for it the next time I used Motomaster's SP3 and had something survive it. The damage numbers were red.

    Just for verification, I did a search on YouTube. One of the first videos I found on there is a Motormaster gameplay video by iNightSkies. At the 8:59 mark, Motormaster finishes an SP3, and the damage numbers are red.

    https://youtu.be/ZHsTsUDrGpY?t=532
  • Jay32Jay32 Posts: 169
    Honestly if your using him vs. Motormaster & G1 Bee in AM then they should take another look at Wheeljack. Having 3 shields & with him able to heal is alot plus with Nano he becomes invincible for 1 whole minute lol. Still don't get how they allowed him to become invincible because no bot should have that type of abilitie.
  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    Zettatron wrote: »
    Synthwave wrote: »
    I think the best and most straight-forward way to see this is when Motormaster lands his final hit on his special 3, the damage numbers are always either white (basic damage) or yellow (critical damage).

    There hasn't ever and there never will be any red numbers when he lands. It's these red damage numbers only that are able to instantly penetrate Wheeljack's shielding and Motormaster simply doesn't have them.

    So I think it's safe to say it falls under the ALL DAMAGE phrasing found in Wheeljack's signature and is therefore a bug that needs to be patched. I hope the dev team agrees with this logic.
    This is incorrect. After I read this, I watched for it the next time I used Motomaster's SP3 and had something survive it. The damage numbers were red.

    Just for verification, I did a search on YouTube. One of the first videos I found on there is a Motormaster gameplay video by iNightSkies. At the 8:59 mark, Motormaster finishes an SP3, and the damage numbers are red.

    https://youtu.be/ZHsTsUDrGpY?t=532

    Clearly it's been a long time since I've used Motormaster lol. I think I confused his sp2 and sp3.

    So it looks he's the only bot in the game with a non-classifiable DoT effect. It's not instant shock, dark burn or anything else, just "additional damage." Weird anomaly.

    I guess that's the reason why it's able to go through two shields. So much for Wheeljack reducing ALL damage by 100% lol.

    Thanks for the clarification @Zettatron !

  • SynthwaveSynthwave Posts: 1,012
    Jay32 wrote: »
    Honestly if your using him vs. Motormaster & G1 Bee in AM then they should take another look at Wheeljack. Having 3 shields & with him able to heal is alot plus with Nano he becomes invincible for 1 whole minute lol. Still don't get how they allowed him to become invincible because no bot should have that type of abilitie.

    well clearly he's not invincible with nano lol.
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