Because you DO have to have a particular bot to be successful. This is not my opinion, this is a documented and accepted fact within the community pertaining to HA. I'm not a dedicated hyper-gamer, I get it, but it's objectively clear that Harm Accelerators are more valuable than other mods.
That strength disparity, and the single required counter to it in a game that relies on random draws, is why this thread is still around.
I don't see any problem with Harm. I admit, the first time I went against BC+Harm I lost two bots. And the first time against Grindor+Harm, same. But any Brawler is an effective counter to BC. Any Tact can get through Grindor+harm. Any demo can get through UM+harm. WB can deal with UM or Grindor, and IH can deal with UM, Grindor or BC... there're loads of options.
You might lose half a bot, but so what? 3 bots, 5 fights... there's no prize for a flawless run, you either beat the base or you don't. Who cares if you only just win? Don't view it as a single difficult fight, consider whether the whole base is difficult.
On average, I'd have to say very few bases are difficult. The only thing that will really make it hard to win a raid is if you chose a base that's out of your league. Like, if you take 2* bots to a 10k base. If you pick fights you can win, you're gonna win them all the time.
On average, I'd have to say very few bases are difficult. The only thing that will really make it hard to win a raid is if you chose a base that's out of your league. Like, if you take 2* bots to a 10k base. If you pick fights you can win, you're gonna win them all the time.
^ This. On average every 6-7k base is currently doable if you have at least 1 4/40 bot (perferable IH, MV1, Optimus classic, but a lot of other bots also work like MotorMaster). And since the alpha wall came down, getting a 4/40 isn't that difficult anymore, at least not when you are at the stage of running into 6-7k bases.
Sure, an MV1 is a hard counter against HA, so makes your life easier, but loosing 3/4 of your IH really isn't a big deal.
And regarding the topic of more then on HA: I ran across a base that had a 4* and 3* HA with a 4/40 BC & Grindor. That's absolutly babaric, but doesn't happen often. 2* HAs are way less problematic and 1* simply don't count.
I thinks the ability to accumulate stacks is one of the big issue. If we manage to block or dodge the special attack, we shouldn't be penalised by getting an extra stack. That would allow more bots to be usable against HA, and would mean better skills are required.
I thinks the ability to accumulate stacks is one of the big issue. If we manage to block or dodge the special attack, we shouldn't be penalised by getting an extra stack. That would allow more bots to be usable against HA, and would mean better skills are required.
This^
This is my one beef with HA. It should only stack if you get hit. Otherwise leave HA alone. They work fine. People too quick to jump on the complaint bandwagon. Harm Accelerators are not broken and I've been through bases with 3, 1 on each major node.
People complaining about not having mv1 prime so they cant raid. Im at about 1750 medals last i looked and I still don't use mv1 prime. Quit relying on a single bot. Mv1 prime is NOT a requirement to raid.
I thinks the ability to accumulate stacks is one of the big issue. If we manage to block or dodge the special attack, we shouldn't be penalised by getting an extra stack. That would allow more bots to be usable against HA, and would mean better skills are required.
This, exactly.
This is the ONLY problem with HA, particularly against bots that can power gain (Sideswipe, ratchet, Soundwave, prowl, etc.)
The solution is to stack a bleed debuff only when a special attack connects.
You'll dodge 4-5 specials in the first 30 seconds of battle, and then watch your health go down at warp speed the way it currently works.
And there's nothing you can do about it unless you run with MV1 against these specific bots, or you are very adept at controlling power gains with a mirage or barricade.
Otherwise I have to say HA is overall not a big deal except for the cheap stacked bleed thing on specials.
I thinks the ability to accumulate stacks is one of the big issue. If we manage to block or dodge the special attack, we shouldn't be penalised by getting an extra stack. That would allow more bots to be usable against HA, and would mean better skills are required.
This, exactly.
This is the ONLY problem with HA, particularly against bots that can power gain (Sideswipe, ratchet, Soundwave, prowl, etc.)
The solution is to stack a bleed debuff only when a special attack connects.
You'll dodge 4-5 specials in the first 30 seconds of battle, and then watch your health go down at warp speed the way it currently works.
And there's nothing you can do about it unless you run with MV1 against these specific bots, or you are very adept at controlling power gains with a mirage or barricade.
Otherwise I have to say HA is overall not a big deal except for the cheap stacked bleed thing on specials.
I agree with this, I'm still irritated at the mod in general but if this were fixed I think it would take the sense of unfairness away and make it more about skill.
I thinks the ability to accumulate stacks is one of the big issue. If we manage to block or dodge the special attack, we shouldn't be penalised by getting an extra stack. That would allow more bots to be usable against HA, and would mean better skills are required.
This, exactly.
This is the ONLY problem with HA, particularly against bots that can power gain (Sideswipe, ratchet, Soundwave, prowl, etc.)
The solution is to stack a bleed debuff only when a special attack connects.
You'll dodge 4-5 specials in the first 30 seconds of battle, and then watch your health go down at warp speed the way it currently works.
And there's nothing you can do about it unless you run with MV1 against these specific bots, or you are very adept at controlling power gains with a mirage or barricade.
Otherwise I have to say HA is overall not a big deal except for the cheap stacked bleed thing on specials.
I agree with this, I'm still irritated at the mod in general but if this were fixed I think it would take the sense of unfairness away and make it more about skill.
Has there ever been a comment from kabam? I completely agree that the only thing that makes it bad is the stacking on misses.
If it's something like a rank 3 grindor it's impossible to take him down before he reaches S3 if you have an equal Rank 3, even if it's a tactician. So you either take a huge gamble (which usually doesn't pay off as the ai loves using s3s) or you dance around and get drained while trying to bait, which just increases the drain further (but is less dmg than a s3 hit).
I have fought HA rank 3 bots with both mv1 and other rank 3 bots, including type advantage. Compared to any node that doesn't have HA I lose a huge amount of health, way more than any other node. If a normal node is 10-25% health lost, HA would easily double or triple that. It's especially worse and frustrating with high evasion bots and the current super evasive ai.
I've never lost a raid because of HA bot, but compared to every other mod the disparity and imbalance is obvious to even my 6 year old nephew. Any argument that it's comparatively balanced to other mods is absurd.
At rank 4, the scaling of HP and power makes HA even worse.
To fix it, remove the bonus stacks for using specials. Also, just lower the number. Rank 3 mod is 760% atk bleed, which is too much.
The problem, as others have said, is that no amount of skill can stop you from taking damage, more unavoidable damage than any other mod provides.
The fact that no amount of skill can do anything about it, causes player frustration, we have no choice but to just eat it. I think this is the main issue. The helplessness leads to frustration.
Other mods you can dodge and play around the damage or effect. This you can't do anything.
Dunno, I know have a MV1. HA really wasn't an issue for me before, now I don't even think about it anymore. As soon as we have more bots that counter HA it will go down in importance fast.
Also more and more people will get MV1, so that's going to be a problem that solves itself.
After giving it some thought (And hitting rank 4 with G1 Optimus) I think that all Harms need is to have the auto-stacking on specials changed to only stacking if you don't block/dodge it.
Grindor is still a beast though, he can annihilate a equal level Bumblebee with a Harm active, screw the class advantage!
I seriously hope Kabam is looking at this because the stacks are getting ridiculous. Yet again grindor uses two s1s I dodge then somehow evades me the entire fight. I was hit by one combo and killed before taking half his hp. Ridiculous.
yes, removing extra stacks would go a long way to fixing this.
Actually MV1 also fixes that problem. I honestly don't think they will change something to HA as long as MV1 is the only hard counter. Makes MV1 pretty valuable and selling things like cinema crystals easy...
It's unhealthy for the game and meta to have mv1, or now grimlock with sig as a requirement to avoid this problem. They were pretty quick to nerf motormaster's unstoppable and ratchets healing.. why hasn't this been touched?
No other mod comes close to the damage output this mod provides... and with bots getting stronger (more rank 4s floating around) and bots holding their special until 3 and instantly using it.. dance around and bleed out trying to avoid s3 or eat a s3 and huge multiple stacks of bleed plus bleed during the long drawn out s3 animation.. the damage is quite insane.
It's unhealthy for the game and meta to have mv1, or now grimlock with sig as a requirement to avoid this problem. They were pretty quick to nerf motormaster's unstoppable and ratchets healing.. why hasn't this been touched?
No other mod comes close to the damage output this mod provides... and with bots getting stronger (more rank 4s floating around) and bots holding their special until 3 and instantly using it.. dance around and bleed out trying to avoid s3 or eat a s3 and huge multiple stacks of bleed plus bleed during the long drawn out s3 animation.. the damage is quite insane.
I agree with everything here, Harms are still absurdly broken, and sticking Grindor or Ultra Magnus on one is basically a death sentence even with class advantage. Forcing players to take MV1 or Grimlock (dupe required) to counter it is just one more strike in a long list that makes raids easily the LEAST enjoyable mode in the game. Removing bleed auto-stacks on specials would help a lot (if I never get hit/block everything, why can I still watch my life bar drain?)
Harm accelerators arent broken. You just need to figure out the best bots to attack with. My base gets destroyed all the time with a maxed 3* HA and I've taken down bases with harm accelerators using MM IH Rhinox both primes and now a duped Grimlock. Nerfing harm accelerators will end up breaking defensive capabilities. In all honesty...if Harm Accelerators get nerfed, there is absolutely no point of building stronger bases to defend as this mod along with laser guidance mod are crucial to successfully building a strong base.
I will admit I have found more creative ways to overcome HA lately.
MV1 and grimlock (duped) are obvious choices... But there are other ways to battle HA..
BC if duped is hilarious if you are ultra aggressive.
MM if duped just keeps hitting harder as his life goes down.
Megatron takes much less damage against HA because of his defensive buff
There are options out there. If you build a raid squad with any two of these bots, you should be able to make it through most bases if you spread out the pain across multiple HA mods.
In all honesty, if HA is nerfed heavily, though, there would need to be other balance changes... because as it stands, even with HA as powerful as it is, it is extremely tough to defend your base.
If anything, what I would change about HA is to put diminishing returns on the +bleed per each special. Other than that, the mods NEED to be powerful. I would worry more about buffing the other ones than nerfing the one strong one.... as it stands, raiding is too easy across the board, HA is just imbalanced compared to the other mods.
And yeah... MV1 is the counter to HA. The game is very young though, in infancy stages as I see it. There will be more counters to HA in the future, maybe even complete bleed immunity. So we don't necessarily want them to blow up the way the game operates now just because HA is something people are having a hard time with when they are still building their accounts and don't have the counter to it yet.
+bleed per each special needs to be removed from harm accelerators. Doesn't make sense that when you manage to avoid a speical the bleed stacks +1 to your bot!
Also the damage and duration from it needs to be NERFED asap.
All you'd need to do to make your defence super strong is to equip 1*,2*, and 3* harm accelerators on all your primary nodes to make it hard for enemies to conquer your base! Which is game breaking design to begin with!
I completely disagree. My base has all 3* most r2 or better I have 2 Bc's one a 3*dupe & the other is 4*unduped paired w/ 2* duped HA & 3* unduped HA & my base gets plowed many times a day. I have 50 sum defends at a ratio of approximat8ely 1 defend for every 50-70 times raided I have a lot of resources wrapped up in defensive bots cause it's the only was the only way I was gonna make it a challenge for people looting my stuff. So no do not nerf if anything as has already been stated, you need to increase the damage output of other mods to make it more of a challenge for people to raid your base. Please don't do what 8 just saw coming back in here to complete this! DO NOT NERF BOTS!!! As it's unfair to those who have already used resources to bring a bot up to that level. If anything increase the weak ones to bring them up to par. Then it's a level playing field because everyone has to use resources to level and rank said bot up. It's not like you offer those resources back for a bot you have destroyed by nerfing them. Keep it even keeled.
Comments
That strength disparity, and the single required counter to it in a game that relies on random draws, is why this thread is still around.
You might lose half a bot, but so what? 3 bots, 5 fights... there's no prize for a flawless run, you either beat the base or you don't. Who cares if you only just win? Don't view it as a single difficult fight, consider whether the whole base is difficult.
On average, I'd have to say very few bases are difficult. The only thing that will really make it hard to win a raid is if you chose a base that's out of your league. Like, if you take 2* bots to a 10k base. If you pick fights you can win, you're gonna win them all the time.
^ This. On average every 6-7k base is currently doable if you have at least 1 4/40 bot (perferable IH, MV1, Optimus classic, but a lot of other bots also work like MotorMaster). And since the alpha wall came down, getting a 4/40 isn't that difficult anymore, at least not when you are at the stage of running into 6-7k bases.
Sure, an MV1 is a hard counter against HA, so makes your life easier, but loosing 3/4 of your IH really isn't a big deal.
And regarding the topic of more then on HA: I ran across a base that had a 4* and 3* HA with a 4/40 BC & Grindor. That's absolutly babaric, but doesn't happen often. 2* HAs are way less problematic and 1* simply don't count.
This^
This is my one beef with HA. It should only stack if you get hit. Otherwise leave HA alone. They work fine. People too quick to jump on the complaint bandwagon. Harm Accelerators are not broken and I've been through bases with 3, 1 on each major node.
People complaining about not having mv1 prime so they cant raid. Im at about 1750 medals last i looked and I still don't use mv1 prime. Quit relying on a single bot. Mv1 prime is NOT a requirement to raid.
This, exactly.
This is the ONLY problem with HA, particularly against bots that can power gain (Sideswipe, ratchet, Soundwave, prowl, etc.)
The solution is to stack a bleed debuff only when a special attack connects.
You'll dodge 4-5 specials in the first 30 seconds of battle, and then watch your health go down at warp speed the way it currently works.
And there's nothing you can do about it unless you run with MV1 against these specific bots, or you are very adept at controlling power gains with a mirage or barricade.
Otherwise I have to say HA is overall not a big deal except for the cheap stacked bleed thing on specials.
I agree with this, I'm still irritated at the mod in general but if this were fixed I think it would take the sense of unfairness away and make it more about skill.
Has there ever been a comment from kabam? I completely agree that the only thing that makes it bad is the stacking on misses.
I have fought HA rank 3 bots with both mv1 and other rank 3 bots, including type advantage. Compared to any node that doesn't have HA I lose a huge amount of health, way more than any other node. If a normal node is 10-25% health lost, HA would easily double or triple that. It's especially worse and frustrating with high evasion bots and the current super evasive ai.
I've never lost a raid because of HA bot, but compared to every other mod the disparity and imbalance is obvious to even my 6 year old nephew. Any argument that it's comparatively balanced to other mods is absurd.
At rank 4, the scaling of HP and power makes HA even worse.
To fix it, remove the bonus stacks for using specials. Also, just lower the number. Rank 3 mod is 760% atk bleed, which is too much.
The problem, as others have said, is that no amount of skill can stop you from taking damage, more unavoidable damage than any other mod provides.
The fact that no amount of skill can do anything about it, causes player frustration, we have no choice but to just eat it. I think this is the main issue. The helplessness leads to frustration.
Other mods you can dodge and play around the damage or effect. This you can't do anything.
Also more and more people will get MV1, so that's going to be a problem that solves itself.
Grindor is still a beast though, he can annihilate a equal level Bumblebee with a Harm active, screw the class advantage!
Actually MV1 also fixes that problem. I honestly don't think they will change something to HA as long as MV1 is the only hard counter. Makes MV1 pretty valuable and selling things like cinema crystals easy...
If it's gonna stack bleeds from specials, they should at least be required to land the blow
It's unhealthy for the game and meta to have mv1, or now grimlock with sig as a requirement to avoid this problem. They were pretty quick to nerf motormaster's unstoppable and ratchets healing.. why hasn't this been touched?
No other mod comes close to the damage output this mod provides... and with bots getting stronger (more rank 4s floating around) and bots holding their special until 3 and instantly using it.. dance around and bleed out trying to avoid s3 or eat a s3 and huge multiple stacks of bleed plus bleed during the long drawn out s3 animation.. the damage is quite insane.
I agree with everything here, Harms are still absurdly broken, and sticking Grindor or Ultra Magnus on one is basically a death sentence even with class advantage. Forcing players to take MV1 or Grimlock (dupe required) to counter it is just one more strike in a long list that makes raids easily the LEAST enjoyable mode in the game. Removing bleed auto-stacks on specials would help a lot (if I never get hit/block everything, why can I still watch my life bar drain?)
MV1 and grimlock (duped) are obvious choices... But there are other ways to battle HA..
BC if duped is hilarious if you are ultra aggressive.
MM if duped just keeps hitting harder as his life goes down.
Megatron takes much less damage against HA because of his defensive buff
There are options out there. If you build a raid squad with any two of these bots, you should be able to make it through most bases if you spread out the pain across multiple HA mods.
I completely disagree. My base has all 3* most r2 or better I have 2 Bc's one a 3*dupe & the other is 4*unduped paired w/ 2* duped HA & 3* unduped HA & my base gets plowed many times a day. I have 50 sum defends at a ratio of approximat8ely 1 defend for every 50-70 times raided I have a lot of resources wrapped up in defensive bots cause it's the only was the only way I was gonna make it a challenge for people looting my stuff. So no do not nerf if anything as has already been stated, you need to increase the damage output of other mods to make it more of a challenge for people to raid your base. Please don't do what 8 just saw coming back in here to complete this! DO NOT NERF BOTS!!! As it's unfair to those who have already used resources to bring a bot up to that level. If anything increase the weak ones to bring them up to par. Then it's a level playing field because everyone has to use resources to level and rank said bot up. It's not like you offer those resources back for a bot you have destroyed by nerfing them. Keep it even keeled.