Prowl's SP2 Range or Melee??

Red_Eyes

So I was just fighting Prowl with Cheetor. At one point I use a heavy and while in mid-flight Prowl pulls out his shotgun and blows my Cheetor to bits instead of "Missing"

As far as I know Prowl's SP2 is a ranged attack hence him getting a "ranged" buff when he uses it. Is this just another instance of us getting the short end of the stick or is there something I'm missing here?

Actually I'm not sure it evens matter whether it's ranged or melee because I know bots have missed my Cheetor with melee specials while Cheetor was in the middle of a heavy.

Slayer

Weird, I believe its a range attack because i once completely dodged both the shots of his Sp2 when in Windblade’s jet mode.
and imo windblade and cheetor heavy have a lot in common when it comes to miss range attacks

Red_Eyes

Slayer wrote: »

Weird, I believe its a range attack because i once completely dodged both the shots of his Sp2 when in Windblade’s jet mode.
and imo windblade and cheetor heavy have a lot in common when it comes to miss range attacks

Yes, it is weird. The blasts should have "Missed."

DaveJL

I think it's a ranged attack that does melee energy damage, like Optimus Primal's heavy attack.

Darm0k

Like Slayer, I’ve used Windblade’s heavy to completely avoid Prowl’s S2. I would assume Cheetor would evade it or it would miss during his heavy attack.

I guess it’s one of those Kabam inconsistencies like Uktra Magnus’ hammer S1. Arcee has “evade ranged” it before, but Scorponok gets hit even though there’s a dazed stack on UM.

Red_Eyes

DaveJL wrote: »

I think it's a ranged attack that does melee energy damage, like Optimus Primal's heavy attack.

I guess, I don't know. Regardless there should have been a Miss. As mentioned, I've had experiences where bots have Missed with melee specials during a Cheetor heavy and as others have mentioned here Windblade has evaded Prowl's SP2. She can only evade ranged so that suggests Prowl's SP2 is ranged only. Either way there should have been a Miss.

Red_Eyes

Darm0k wrote: »

Like Slayer, I’ve used Windblade’s heavy to completely avoid Prowl’s S2. I would assume Cheetor would evade it or it would miss during his heavy attack.

I guess it’s one of those Kabam inconsistencies like Uktra Magnus’ hammer S1. Arcee has “evade ranged” it before, but Scorponok gets hit even though there’s a dazed stack on UM.

Yeah, you're probably right.

I guess it's us getting the short end of the stick.

ScarredArachnid333

Were u too close and then he pulled the shotgun on you? Usually when I use my Cheetor, the extremely close ranged attacks tend to hit instead of triggering Evade or Miss. I feel like that's a bug.

Red_Eyes

ScarredArachnid333 wrote: »

Were u too close and then he pulled the shotgun on you? Usually when I use my Cheetor, the extremely close ranged attacks tend to hit instead of triggering Evade or Miss. I feel like that's a bug.

It probably is a bug, Wasp. I don't think there should be such a thing as "too close" but yes I was pretty close.

KillMasterC

To dodge his sp2 you have to use backstep, like you do with melee attacks. And if you use Prowl's sp2 against a knocked-down Barricade, the latter uses backstep in his evade animation as well. But that doesn't explain why Scorponok's daze can make his sp2 missed or why Windblade can heavy through.

Inconsistency by all means.

UrAverageMalaka

DaveJL wrote: »

I think it's a ranged attack that does melee energy damage, like Optimus Primal's heavy attack.

If thats the case, does that mean that the more melee buffs you stack, the more damage is sp2 does?

DaveJL

UrAverageMalaka wrote: »

DaveJL wrote: »

I think it's a ranged attack that does melee energy damage, like Optimus Primal's heavy attack.

If thats the case, does that mean that the more melee buffs you stack, the more damage is sp2 does?

I've been trying to test that, but it doesn't appear to be the case.

Which leads me to believe it is a ranged attack and I'm thinking the OP dashed in and the AI triggered the special, making the attack miss but the evasion buff wore off?

Duckimus_Prime

Ranged attacks don't miss Cheetor in his heavy. He gets a 100% range evade that has him side step a ranged attack. However, you can't side step to dodge Prowl's SP2 so Cheetor still gets hit.

DonApis

Duckimus_Prime wrote: »

Ranged attacks don't miss Cheetor in his heavy. He gets a 100% range evade that has him side step a ranged attack. However, you can't side step to dodge Prowl's SP2 so Cheetor still gets hit.

This one is quite logical.

DaveJL

Ok, sorry to bump this but something interesting just happened in arena - G1 Bee evaded Prowls sp2 with his evade buff - which only evades MELEE attacks. This leads me to believe that Prowls sp2 is a ranged melee attack (like Primals heavy attack). It obviously does ranged energy damage, so I think all attacks have several types of classification.

Can't figure out what though... I guess first the question is, is the attack type melee or ranged in type, then what RANGE does it have, i.e distance (explains why Cheetor, Motormaster, Grimlock to name a few seem to have bigger reach and Wasp and Jazz have small reach) and then it must classify the damage type, e.g. is it melee or ranged type damage and is it physical or energy damage.

KillMasterC

It's like Primal's heavy except it won't trigger BC's bleed.

DaveJL

KillMasterC wrote: »

It's like Primal's heavy except it won't trigger BC's bleed.

exactly

Red_Eyes

I think the issue is just the direction of the evades.

Bee, I think dashes back when he evades melee which is what you have to do evade Prowl's SP2. When they developed Cheetor, instead of making him evade in whatever direction necessary, they made him so that he only sidesteps to his left to evade ranged and as we know that doesn't work for Prowl's SP2.

I think it's just a coincidental quirk.

DaveJL

Red_Eyes wrote: »

I think the issue is just the direction of the evades.

Bee, I think dashes back when he evades melee which is what you have to do evade Prowl's SP2. When they developed Cheetor, instead of making him evade in whatever direction necessary, they made him so that he only sidesteps to his left to evade ranged and as we know that doesn't work for Prowl's SP2.

I think it's just a coincidental quirk.

You are completely missing the point lol.

Bee's evade buff ONLY evades MELEE attacks.

Cheetor ONLY evades RANGED attacks.

Therefore if the melee evader can evade it but the ranged evader can't, it is classed as a melee attack.

JIMMY_SAB

I will post video evidence but I’ve seen Cheetor’s Evade trigger against a Melee. I think it boils down to a messy combination of the intended buff/debufff meshed with inexact spacing in the middle of the fight. Hence the inconsistent behavior.

DaveJL

JIMMY_SAB wrote: »

I will post video evidence but I’ve seen Cheetor’s Evade trigger against a Melee. I think it boils down to a messy combination of the intended buff/debufff meshed with inexact spacing in the middle of the fight. Hence the inconsistent behavior.

The only time I have seen this is when I've tried to dash at him after dodging his heavy attack and it misses, and actually comes up and says "MISS"

but that's clearly a bug. We know that there are ranged attacks that are classed as melee attacks due to Primal's heavy attack, so given that Bee can evade it with a melee evade buff, I think it's safe to assume it's a melee attack with a range of the screen that does ranged energy damage. Because that isn't complicated...

Darm0k

Interesting. I'm pretty sure I've used Windblade's heavy attack to avoid Prowl's S2. I guess someone should try using Prowl against Ultra Magnus to see which resistance buffs activate or on the focus power gain mod and see if it resets the timer.

DaveJL

Darm0k wrote: »

Interesting. I'm pretty sure I've used Windblade's heavy attack to avoid Prowl's S2. I guess someone should try using Prowl against Ultra Magnus to see which resistance buffs activate or on the focus power gain mod and see if it resets the timer.

as I explained though, there are obviously a lot of variables here. Ultra Magnus might proc an energy resistance buff, but not all ranged attacks are energy based (drift, kickback, bludgeon) and not all melee attacks are physical (megatron and galvatron second medium)

not all close attacks are melee and physical either. Hounds 4th light attack is a ranged energy attack with no range. If he has the sig buff it's better to use a 4th light attack to end a combo as it does more damage than a medium. So basically the factors are melee or ranged, range of attack, physical or energy damage, ranged or melee damage it would seem

Red_Eyes

DaveJL wrote: »

JIMMY_SAB wrote: »

I will post video evidence but I’ve seen Cheetor’s Evade trigger against a Melee. I think it boils down to a messy combination of the intended buff/debufff meshed with inexact spacing in the middle of the fight. Hence the inconsistent behavior.

The only time I have seen this is when I've tried to dash at him after dodging his heavy attack and it misses, and actually comes up and says "MISS"

but that's clearly a bug. We know that there are ranged attacks that are classed as melee attacks due to Primal's heavy attack, so given that Bee can evade it with a melee evade buff, I think it's safe to assume it's a melee attack with a range of the screen that does ranged energy damage. Because that isn't complicated...

People here have stated that they have used Windblade's heavy to MIss Prowl's SP2 though. How is that if she can only Miss on ranged attacks?

And why does Prowl get a ranged buff with his SP2?

It should be possible to evade range with Prowl's SP2 if it is like Primal's. Arcee has no problem whatsoever triggering "Evade Ranged" on Primal's heavy. Same thing with awakened Hot Rod after using a special.

Darm0k

Oh, just remembered one more, Scorponok’s dazed debuff will cause Prowl’s S2 to miss.

Zettatron

Misses and Evades are two separate mechanics. Prowl's SP2 apparently is considered ranged for the miss mechanic, but melee for the evade mechanic. I don't think either of those necessarily correspond to which buffs affect it or not, in part because seemingly generic buffs seem to have unique implementations for each character.

I've long wondered just how the mechanics work in general. I mean, you can complicate things further by adding in which ranged attacks can be reflected and which ones can't. I'm pretty sure that's another categorization that doesn't quite line up with any of the others.

DaveJL

Red_Eyes wrote: »

DaveJL wrote: »

JIMMY_SAB wrote: »

I will post video evidence but I’ve seen Cheetor’s Evade trigger against a Melee. I think it boils down to a messy combination of the intended buff/debufff meshed with inexact spacing in the middle of the fight. Hence the inconsistent behavior.

The only time I have seen this is when I've tried to dash at him after dodging his heavy attack and it misses, and actually comes up and says "MISS"

but that's clearly a bug. We know that there are ranged attacks that are classed as melee attacks due to Primal's heavy attack, so given that Bee can evade it with a melee evade buff, I think it's safe to assume it's a melee attack with a range of the screen that does ranged energy damage. Because that isn't complicated...

People here have stated that they have used Windblade's heavy to MIss Prowl's SP2 though. How is that if she can only Miss on ranged attacks?

And why does Prowl get a ranged buff with his SP2?

It should be possible to evade range with Prowl's SP2 if it is like Primal's. Arcee has no problem whatsoever triggering "Evade Ranged" on Primal's heavy. Same thing with awakened Hot Rod after using a special.

Gets ranged buff because it does ranged damage I believe. Ranged energy damage. But I think it's classed as a melee attack that has a long range.