Dinbot and rhinox heavy

Black_ThoughtBlack_Thought Posts: 378
edited April 14 in General Discussion
Team, can we get this fixed please. They should in inline with other mele heavies. The risk/reward is not worth using. You are more likely to die when using their heavies. I can do a video but I’m sure you guys know what I mean when I say it’s a HIGE RISK. PLEASE GET THIS FIXED. @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Miike

Comments

  • Bntyhntr3232_Bntyhntr3232_ Posts: 2,193
    I only wish they'd fix it
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,595
    I used to think this as well, but the fact is, you can avoid a counterattack on a miss after using their heavy attacks just like any other bot.

    It simply requires better timing, and you just need to adapt. I've used beast wars bots for a long time, and the window to backstep or sidestep after a miss is much smaller, but you can always get out of the way if you time it right.

    Cheetor is no different.
  • Black_ThoughtBlack_Thought Posts: 378
    Manthro wrote: »
    I used to think this as well, but the fact is, you can avoid a counterattack on a miss after using their heavy attacks just like any other bot.

    It simply requires better timing, and you just need to adapt. I've used beast wars bots for a long time, and the window to backstep or sidestep after a miss is much smaller, but you can always get out of the way if you time it right.

    Cheetor is no different.

    Sorry, but your wrong. The fact that you have to time it perfecly that should Tell you it’s broken. Tell me when the last time you did a combo and finished off with a heavy using someone like mirage and been worried about getting countered? No one said anything about cheetor, his heavy isn’t the same. The fact of the matter is that dinbot and rhinox heavy are broken. Trust me I almost exclusively use a beast team.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,595
    edited April 14
    Manthro wrote: »
    I used to think this as well, but the fact is, you can avoid a counterattack on a miss after using their heavy attacks just like any other bot.

    It simply requires better timing, and you just need to adapt. I've used beast wars bots for a long time, and the window to backstep or sidestep after a miss is much smaller, but you can always get out of the way if you time it right.

    Cheetor is no different.

    Sorry, but your wrong. The fact that you have to time it perfecly that should Tell you it’s broken. Tell me when the last time you did a combo and finished off with a heavy using someone like mirage and been worried about getting countered? No one said anything about cheetor, his heavy isn’t the same. The fact of the matter is that dinbot and rhinox heavy are broken. Trust me I almost exclusively use a beast team.


    I'm not wrong.

    Try timing a sidestep after a miss instead. You're going to find that depending on circumstances, a well timed sidestep will get you out of the way instead of a backstep in certain scenarios.

    There's nothing wrong with having a heavy attack that requires better timing to avoid a counterattack.

    Some bots have quick melee (Motormaster, Grimlock, WB, Bludgeon) allowing you to make up for a miss on the initial attack.

    Others have slow melee (wasp) forcing you to time your dodges more accurately in order to successfully counter.

    Others, such as Dino and Rhinox have slow recoil after a heavy attack leaving then exposed in the hands of inexperienced players.

    You need to be razor sharp accurate to dodge after a miss on these bots, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    Not all bots are the same, and they shouldn't be played as if they are.

    Adapt.

    In the case of dinobot, you even have the option of pairing him with a shield masters synergy so that you can perfect block after a heavy if you need to.
  • BlackRazakBlackRazak Posts: 2,250
    edited April 14
    Agree with @Manthro here.
    And also above advice is key to survival not only for the aforementioned bots, but also when doing melee attacks with G1 Megs, Galvatron and Grindor; whom leaves themselves open for counterattacks after their "swinging" animations
  • Black_ThoughtBlack_Thought Posts: 378
    E
    BlackRazak wrote: »
    Agree with @Manthro here.
    And also above advice is key to survival not only for the aforementioned bots, but also when doing melee attacks with G1 Megs, Galvatron and Grindor; whom leaves themselves open for counterattacks after their "swinging" animations

    So I’m not sure what your agreeing with as these are two completely different issues. G1 megs still suffer from whiffing, I’ve never had an mele issue with galvatron.
  • Black_ThoughtBlack_Thought Posts: 378
    Manthro wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    I used to think this as well, but the fact is, you can avoid a counterattack on a miss after using their heavy attacks just like any other bot.

    It simply requires better timing, and you just need to adapt. I've used beast wars bots for a long time, and the window to backstep or sidestep after a miss is much smaller, but you can always get out of the way if you time it right.

    Cheetor is no different.

    Sorry, but your wrong. The fact that you have to time it perfecly that should Tell you it’s broken. Tell me when the last time you did a combo and finished off with a heavy using someone like mirage and been worried about getting countered? No one said anything about cheetor, his heavy isn’t the same. The fact of the matter is that dinbot and rhinox heavy are broken. Trust me I almost exclusively use a beast team.


    I'm not wrong.

    Try timing a sidestep after a miss instead. You're going to find that depending on circumstances, a well timed sidestep will get you out of the way instead of a backstep in certain scenarios.

    There's nothing wrong with having a heavy attack that requires better timing to avoid a counterattack.

    Some bots have quick melee (Motormaster, Grimlock, WB, Bludgeon) allowing you to make up for a miss on the initial attack.

    Others have slow melee (wasp) forcing you to time your dodges more accurately in order to successfully counter.

    Others, such as Dino and Rhinox have slow recoil after a heavy attack leaving then exposed in the hands of inexperienced players.

    You need to be razor sharp accurate to dodge after a miss on these bots, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    Not all bots are the same, and they shouldn't be played as if they are.

    Adapt.

    In the case of dinobot, you even have the option of pairing him with a shield masters synergy so that you can perfect block after a heavy if you need to.

    Well I’m quite experienced, your still missing the point though. All mele heavies should be on par with each other. No one is bring up basic mele attacks, so don’t introduce them. I’ll guarente if you play high level an you will be hesitant to use dinbot or rhinox heavy. Your notion to adapt is ridiculous, just fix their heavy as they are the only two who suffer from it. Also, no one is talking synergies do leave them out. This is just about heavy attack.
    @Manthro the self proclaimed beast master, I’ll challenge you to do a video of dinbot and rhinox.
  • HalloweendmHalloweendm Posts: 343
    I'm siding with Manthro on this. I started early with Rhinox and while I'm no expert with him, I rarely get countered on melee heavies. Now, Dinobot, that's my bot! I heavy with him all the time and when I miss (hard to remember that far back, lol), I never had any problems recovering and either blocking or avoiding a counter.

    This is just my thought on it--maybe their difficulty in recovery is because of how dangerous their heavies are. Rhinox shuts down power flow, complete stop, which is a huge thing especially with all the Megatronus + RR complaining. And Dinobot, he just dishes out a huge chunk of damage and causes a bleed, which lets him tear through subsequent blocks and continue dishing out serious damage.

    A lot of people don't like Dinobot, but I can take him into a fight with almost anyone and feel confident of my chances, even Megatronus. Both are worth requiring a little more skill to pull off without getting countered, but their heavies are hardly broken. So put in the time, or play someone else--oh God, I'm starting to talk like Manthro!
  • Darm0kDarm0k Posts: 1,813
    Why do all the bots need to have the same melee heavy? Different bots different characteristics. Rhinox’s also has the benefit of possibly power locking the opponent so there should be some risk with using it.
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 814
    I'm siding with Manthro on this. I started early with Rhinox and while I'm no expert with him, I rarely get countered on melee heavies. Now, Dinobot, that's my bot! I heavy with him all the time and when I miss (hard to remember that far back, lol), I never had any problems recovering and either blocking or avoiding a counter.

    This is just my thought on it--maybe their difficulty in recovery is because of how dangerous their heavies are. Rhinox shuts down power flow, complete stop, which is a huge thing especially with all the Megatronus + RR complaining. And Dinobot, he just dishes out a huge chunk of damage and causes a bleed, which lets him tear through subsequent blocks and continue dishing out serious damage.

    A lot of people don't like Dinobot, but I can take him into a fight with almost anyone and feel confident of my chances, even Megatronus. Both are worth requiring a little more skill to pull off without getting countered, but their heavies are hardly broken. So put in the time, or play someone else--oh God, I'm starting to talk like Manthro!

    Manthro claims you can "always" get out of the way if you time it right....you say you "rarely" get countered, that is a significant difference.

    Sometimes the AI times the shots so that they hit you just as you're landing, there's no avoiding that. I use Rhinox extensively and I know fully well to try to get out the way of shots as he's landing from a heavy, but sometimes it's not possible.
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 362
    edited April 14
    'Timing it right' is not a valid reason for a melee heavy to be treated differently when compared to other heavies that work as intended. The function of a melee heavy has to be streamlined, and work to the standards of players expectation when they compare it to other bots that do not suffer from the same issue.

    The whole 'its not a bug, it's a feature!' is such a silly way to justify this.

    I believe kickback also suffers from this as well.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,595
    edited April 15
    Manthro wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    I used to think this as well, but the fact is, you can avoid a counterattack on a miss after using their heavy attacks just like any other bot.

    It simply requires better timing, and you just need to adapt. I've used beast wars bots for a long time, and the window to backstep or sidestep after a miss is much smaller, but you can always get out of the way if you time it right.

    Cheetor is no different.

    Sorry, but your wrong. The fact that you have to time it perfecly that should Tell you it’s broken. Tell me when the last time you did a combo and finished off with a heavy using someone like mirage and been worried about getting countered? No one said anything about cheetor, his heavy isn’t the same. The fact of the matter is that dinbot and rhinox heavy are broken. Trust me I almost exclusively use a beast team.


    I'm not wrong.

    Try timing a sidestep after a miss instead. You're going to find that depending on circumstances, a well timed sidestep will get you out of the way instead of a backstep in certain scenarios.

    There's nothing wrong with having a heavy attack that requires better timing to avoid a counterattack.

    Some bots have quick melee (Motormaster, Grimlock, WB, Bludgeon) allowing you to make up for a miss on the initial attack.

    Others have slow melee (wasp) forcing you to time your dodges more accurately in order to successfully counter.

    Others, such as Dino and Rhinox have slow recoil after a heavy attack leaving then exposed in the hands of inexperienced players.

    You need to be razor sharp accurate to dodge after a miss on these bots, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    Not all bots are the same, and they shouldn't be played as if they are.

    Adapt.

    In the case of dinobot, you even have the option of pairing him with a shield masters synergy so that you can perfect block after a heavy if you need to.

    Well I’m quite experienced, your still missing the point though. All mele heavies should be on par with each other. No one is bring up basic mele attacks, so don’t introduce them. I’ll guarente if you play high level an you will be hesitant to use dinbot or rhinox heavy. Your notion to adapt is ridiculous, just fix their heavy as they are the only two who suffer from it. Also, no one is talking synergies do leave them out. This is just about heavy attack.
    @Manthro the self proclaimed beast master, I’ll challenge you to do a video of dinbot and rhinox.



    I do play at a high level. Been around since beta, bud.

    The whole purpose of bringing basic attacks into this was just to give an example of how different bots have different characteristics in their playstyle depending on the situation. It just so happens that Dino and Rhinox have those characteristics in their heavy attacks.

    Other bots have different basic melee or ranged nuances.

    It's a perfectly valid comparison, and I don't understand why players want every bot to play exactly the same. I like the variety of playstyles across bots, and the skills you have to employ to be successful with them.

    The absolute only times I will ever get countered using Dino or rhinox heavy attacks is if I wasn't in range to begin with, or if have the AI pinned up against the wall while standing right in its face, because the return trip after the heavy will only bring you back to where you started. This happens when using any melee heavy on any bot, and you expose yourself just the same in this scenario.

    Prior to figuring it out, I would have agreed with you.

    As for synergies. They are an option, don't see why they don't count in this discussion.

    If I could post vid I would, but I don't have a YT channel, nor do I want to create one.

    Plus, Android screen recorders suck, the video ends up very choppy. If you have a line account, I'd be happy to post one there for you to watch though.
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 2,407
    edited April 15
    Manthro wrote: »

    The absolute only times I will ever get countered using Dino or rhinox heavy attacks is if I wasn't in range to begin with, or if have the AI pinned up against the wall while standing right in its face, because the return trip after the heavy will only bring you back to where you started. This happens when using any melee heavy on any bot, and you expose yourself just the same in this scenario.
    This is exactly where things go haywire: if you fight AM Galvatron and pin him blocking against the wall, you need a heavy to power lock him. Otherwise, if you back off, he'll continue blocking to gain dark charges and power charge at the same time.

    And the problem is not only "the return trip is too short": after a backstep, the enemy can reach Rhinox with a melee and punch him back to the ground.
  • HalloweendmHalloweendm Posts: 343
    @Red_Eyes I said 'rarely' because I don't have Manthro's skill. He may be able to pull off a sidestep better than me and I do make mistakes, or I've been using phones or ipads that had crappy connections so even perfect timing wouldn't help in some cases. Not Rhinox but with Dinobot, its more like "almost always" and if his heavy hits, the enemy is f-bombed up their f-hole!

    Windblade's heavy is about like theirs too (transform, zoom in and hit, zoom out and transform again) and it took some effort but I got good with her to the point that I can pull a sidestep the nanosecond her feet hit the ground and dodging with her is like 99.99% of the time post heavy attack. But those two bots are 2 of 3 of my faves (Bludgeon and Starscream tie for 3rd), so I've put a majority of my fighting time in with them.

    Timing sure as heck is a valid reason for melee or ranged anything. If your timing is off, you're not going to do anything but die. Some bots have faster heavies, some are slower, so what. Some have different qualities. Soundwave's heavy is technically a ranged one, but it has the reach of a melee heavy. Tantrum is similar to Soundwave but with a range somewhere between melee and ranged heavies which is balanced by it not being able to neutralize ranged attacks.

  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,595
    edited April 15
    Manthro wrote: »

    The absolute only times I will ever get countered using Dino or rhinox heavy attacks is if I wasn't in range to begin with, or if have the AI pinned up against the wall while standing right in its face, because the return trip after the heavy will only bring you back to where you started. This happens when using any melee heavy on any bot, and you expose yourself just the same in this scenario.
    This is exactly where things go haywire: if you fight AM Galvatron and pin him blocking against the wall, you need a heavy to power lock him. Otherwise, if you back off, he'll continue blocking to gain dark charges and power charge at the same time.

    And the problem is not only "the return trip is too short": after a backstep, the enemy can reach Rhinox with a melee and punch him back to the ground.

    Again, the only time this is even a problem is when you have the opponent against the wall with Little to no space separating you.

    It is not a problem with rhinox, it is a problem with every bot.

    Did you stop reading before the end of my explanation?

    In every other scenario, there is enough time and space to avoid getting countered, whether you believe it or not.
  • Bntyhntr3232_Bntyhntr3232_ Posts: 2,193
    I don't see why we need to argue over this...it's fine! If you learn how to use them you can easily do it...now I just have to learn how to use dinobots XD
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