Op signature needs a serious redesign

As tactician, Op is a natural counter to brawlers.

But it is very funny Op’s Bleed will make him weaker against many brawlers. Not just 1! Or 2!
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Comments

  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,595
    edited June 7
    Tacticians are counters to many types of bots and classes, that's why they have a myriad of skills relevant to many matchups. They are essentially the umbrella class.

    Some tacticians are better than others as direct counters for brawlers in the same way that Scorponok and Bludgeon aren't great counters to most scouts, despite their class advantage.

    If every single bot had the same kit, different bots would be irrelevant.
  • 小龙女小龙女 Posts: 532
    Manthro wrote: »
    Tacticians are counters to many types of bots and classes, that's why they have a myriad of skills relevant to many matchups. They are essentially the umbrella class.

    Some tacticians are better than others as direct counters for brawlers in the same way that Scorponok and Bludgeon aren't great counters to most scouts, despite their class advantage.

    If every single bot had the same kit, different bots would be irrelevant.

    Makes sense. Still have 1 - 2 brawler counter is fine. But 3 or more, it just doesn’t make any sense in the design department. On top of my head at least primal, grim, mv prime
  • JKLJKL Posts: 635
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.
  • 小龙女小龙女 Posts: 532
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    That’s news to me. Btw, should I use 5* sig on megatron or og? (Since u say his bleed is good)
  • Mr_WonderfulMr_Wonderful Posts: 675
    小龙女 wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    That’s news to me. Btw, should I use 5* sig on megatron or og? (Since u say his bleed is good)

    That’s a difficult one. Personally I’d say megs as he’s a spotlight killer. Do you have ratchet as well, or maybe shockwave? Both offer great synergies that could sway the decision
  • JKLJKL Posts: 635
    小龙女 wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    That’s news to me. Btw, should I use 5* sig on megatron or og? (Since u say his bleed is good)

    I should rephrase that to strongest bleeds.

    That's up to you who you want to build up. Can't go wrong with either one. Save them until you're sure who you like to play with more.
  • 小龙女小龙女 Posts: 532
    小龙女 wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    That’s news to me. Btw, should I use 5* sig on megatron or og? (Since u say his bleed is good)

    That’s a difficult one. Personally I’d say megs as he’s a spotlight killer. Do you have ratchet as well, or maybe shockwave? Both offer great synergies that could sway the decision

    Ok, let me ask a more serious question, given I have all 5* bots in game for synergies and given I have 5* signatures and T4C tact spark, who should I invest in for maximum profit? (I think Conquering AM top difficulty is most important consideration)
  • 小龙女小龙女 Posts: 532
    edited June 7
    @JKL @Mr_Wonderful

    I think maybe megatron is better. On D120 AM u get one shot easily, megatron’s damage reduction is insane, so I go with megatron.

    That was an easy decision
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 814
    JKL wrote: »
    小龙女 wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    That’s news to me. Btw, should I use 5* sig on megatron or og? (Since u say his bleed is good)

    I should rephrase that to strongest bleeds.

    That's up to you who you want to build up. Can't go wrong with either one. Save them until you're sure who you like to play with more.

    Strongest....depends on how high his signature is assuming everything else (rank, level and forge) are equal. Bludgeon can melt bots with his bleeds, I think at R5 he tops out at 120% of attack over 5 seconds (without Deep Wounds).....You need a fairly high signature Optimus to match and exceed that, Optimus I think tops at 140% over 4 seconds at max signature if I'm not mistaken. Cheetor also has a great Bleed, his is weaker than Bludgeon's and Optimus' but lasts much longer.
  • JKLJKL Posts: 635
    @Red_Eyes Fair enough. One of the strongest then.
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 2,407
    Red_Eyes wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    小龙女 wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    That’s news to me. Btw, should I use 5* sig on megatron or og? (Since u say his bleed is good)

    I should rephrase that to strongest bleeds.

    That's up to you who you want to build up. Can't go wrong with either one. Save them until you're sure who you like to play with more.

    Strongest....depends on how high his signature is assuming everything else (rank, level and forge) are equal. Bludgeon can melt bots with his bleeds, I think at R5 he tops out at 120% of attack over 5 seconds (without Deep Wounds).....You need a fairly high signature Optimus to match and exceed that, Optimus I think tops at 140% over 4 seconds at max signature if I'm not mistaken. Cheetor also has a great Bleed, his is weaker than Bludgeon's and Optimus' but lasts much longer.

    For OP, crit hit 100% procs bleed. That can't be said for Swordmasters etc, where the strongest (Bludgeon) has the lowest crit rate and lowest of bleed procing upon crit.

    And consider he can land a perma armor break and has advantage against Brawlers (who give the Warrior and Scout Bleeders a hard time), I think the best bleed trophy goes to duped OP.
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 814
    Red_Eyes wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    小龙女 wrote: »
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    That’s news to me. Btw, should I use 5* sig on megatron or og? (Since u say his bleed is good)

    I should rephrase that to strongest bleeds.

    That's up to you who you want to build up. Can't go wrong with either one. Save them until you're sure who you like to play with more.

    Strongest....depends on how high his signature is assuming everything else (rank, level and forge) are equal. Bludgeon can melt bots with his bleeds, I think at R5 he tops out at 120% of attack over 5 seconds (without Deep Wounds).....You need a fairly high signature Optimus to match and exceed that, Optimus I think tops at 140% over 4 seconds at max signature if I'm not mistaken. Cheetor also has a great Bleed, his is weaker than Bludgeon's and Optimus' but lasts much longer.

    For OP, crit hit 100% procs bleed. That can't be said for Swordmasters etc, where the strongest (Bludgeon) has the lowest crit rate and lowest of bleed procing upon crit.

    And consider he can land a perma armor break and has advantage against Brawlers (who give the Warrior and Scout Bleeders a hard time), I think the best bleed trophy goes to duped OP.

    Well if you're going to get into other criteria you're kind of changing the argument. Best bot for Bleeds is one thing, strongest Bleed is another.

    I have personally used Bludgeon against Brawlers in the past and Bludgeon more than held his own. Windblade has Armour Pierce with her SP2 so she's not that ineffective against Brawlers. And as the subject of this thread mentions you have to consider that Optimus' Signature may not be as useful against certain Brawlers.

  • DrShotgunDrShotgun Posts: 1,769
    Never really thought about it but you're right, making many of these brawlers bleed actually help them..plus it doesn't make alot of sense for a Tactical bot to cause a bleed.
  • Faithz17Faithz17 Posts: 693
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D
  • Bntyhntr3232_Bntyhntr3232_ Posts: 2,193
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Tacticians aren't the most useless class but they aren't the umbrella class either...I find them to be the all around class...you can rack up serious damage with dinobot SP1 and Optimus SP2 (and even more when duped)
  • 小龙女小龙女 Posts: 532
    Imagine 200k primal heal 5% each time...

    And imagine 200k grimlock getting 40% more damage
  • JKLJKL Posts: 635
    小龙女 wrote: »
    Imagine 200k primal heal 5% each time...

    And imagine 200k grimlock getting 40% more damage

    Don't use sp3 with OG vs Primal. Use your specials when he has at least 3 or 4 stacks of Crit armor. Then you won't cause any bleed.

    As for Grim, don't get hit 😂
  • JKLJKL Posts: 635
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Tronus is the one that can fight any bot. Class disadvantage doesn't even matter.
  • 小龙女小龙女 Posts: 532
    edited June 8
    @JKL ur “his bleed is god tier” purswaded me, though looking the the word alone “tactitian” is strategic and is definitely natural counter to brainless brawler. Lol (see design of motor master or the bull, they are brainless, or monkey, their intelligence is definitely “primal”)
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 2,471
    JKL wrote: »
    小龙女 wrote: »
    Imagine 200k primal heal 5% each time...

    And imagine 200k grimlock getting 40% more damage

    Don't use sp3 with OG vs Primal. Use your specials when he has at least 3 or 4 stacks of Crit armor. Then you won't cause any bleed.
    This. This is what I always did in the last AM season. The SP2 spam tactic works for me every time
    As for Grim, don't get hit 😂
    Yes

    MV1 isn't a threat to Prime's bleeds either. Just stay attention to his power bar and make sure he doesn't go over 2 bars of power
  • Faithz17Faithz17 Posts: 693
    JKL wrote: »
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Tronus is the one that can fight any bot. Class disadvantage doesn't even matter.

    Definitely agree with you on this. Tronus is so overpowered it’s not funny anymore. Looking forward to when he becomes the featured bot of the month.
  • Bntyhntr3232_Bntyhntr3232_ Posts: 2,193
    JKL wrote: »
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Tronus is the one that can fight any bot. Class disadvantage doesn't even matter.

    Kickback's power leaks bleeds and shocks say hello
  • Mr_WonderfulMr_Wonderful Posts: 675
    JKL wrote: »
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Tronus is the one that can fight any bot. Class disadvantage doesn't even matter.

    Kickback's power leaks bleeds and shocks say hello

    Don’t forget shockwave. Bearing in mind the AI wouldn’t have the logic to immediately purify the shocks, shockwave could easily take on any bot. That sp2 does wonders when shocks aren’t an option as well.
  • Bntyhntr3232_Bntyhntr3232_ Posts: 2,193
    JKL wrote: »
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Tronus is the one that can fight any bot. Class disadvantage doesn't even matter.

    Kickback's power leaks bleeds and shocks say hello

    Don’t forget shockwave. Bearing in mind the AI wouldn’t have the logic to immediately purify the shocks, shockwave could easily take on any bot. That sp2 does wonders when shocks aren’t an option as well.

    I've never used shockwave against tronus
  • JKLJKL Posts: 635
    JKL wrote: »
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Tronus is the one that can fight any bot. Class disadvantage doesn't even matter.

    Kickback's power leaks bleeds and shocks say hello

    Well, I'm talking about fighting with Tronus. KB and Shock are still easy for him. Only BC and Rhinox would give issues (though, they give most bots issues minus the usual counters).

  • RocsolidRocsolid Posts: 249
    JKL wrote: »
    He has the best bleed in the game. I wouldn’t want to change that.

    Sorry. Arcee has the best bleed.
  • RocsolidRocsolid Posts: 249
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Scream. Best and most suited bot in current am map. Null baby!
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 2,407
    Somebody tell me how to fight that GS Megatron in room1 map 3? He deals 13K+ block damage on the first hit of his s2!
  • Faithz17Faithz17 Posts: 693
    Rocsolid wrote: »
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    Have to disagree on tacticians being the umbrella class. They are the most useless class imo. OG OP is only “god tier” with his Ratchet synergy.

    Reading this thread gives me an impulse to rank my Bludgeon up. :D

    Scream. Best and most suited bot in current am map. Null baby!

    Nullify? Wasp nullifies too 😉
  • HalloweendmHalloweendm Posts: 343
    I gotta disagree on a couple things here:
    1) Bludgeon is awesome against scouts! I regularly get stuns and bleeds on them and every so often, he'll end the fight with a 6k-10k damage heavy attack. The only one that really bothers me is Barricade because I've seen him evade close to a dozen attacks in a row, but he doesn't cause me any real problems other than taking slightly longer to kill.
    2) Best bleed in the game is probably Windblade. My 4* 5/50 Op bleeds at 83% of attack for 4 sec--and att is at 911. WB bleeds for 58% of att for 4sec and her attack, 5* 4/40, is 1,863, and nearly 3,000 against tech bots. And OP has to get a crit on an armor break to bleed. WB can sneeze and cause someone to bleed--melee, ranged, even heavy attacks cause bleeds. She gets more crits with sword attacks and more crits and crit damage with swordmaster synergy, and her bleeds trigger stuns too!

    Dinobot's is also better, bleed 80% attack (my 4* 5/50 Dinobot has almost 250 more attack than 4* 5/50 Op) and his swordmaster synergy means he crits on more heavy attacks and that means more bleeds without needing to activate a special or break armor to do it. And with block penetration, unblockable attacks, and armor piercing and breaking he makes very short work of bots after they're done bleeding.
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