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Some ideas to make Jetfire more useable

ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
edited December 2018 in General Discussion
First off, I want to say that I actually enjoy the playstyle and mechanics behind Jetfire... In theory.

In reality, he suffers from some issues... Both in the payoffs being lame for utilizing his skillset to the fullest, as well as his skillset being counterproductive against itself.

So I have a couple of reasonable ideas to make JF a little easier and more intuitive to use.


JF problem #1

His healing mechanic actually prevents you from building charges.

That's right. It's easier to build charges without JF being awakened. It's hard enough to build charges. This mechanic gets in the way.

Possible solution:

change the mechanic so when JF parries an attack he heals for (x% * number of charges)

Keep the mechanic of purifying burns intact, but it only works when actually under a burn debuff.


JF problem #2

The payoff for building 5+ charges is super lame on both S1 and S2. It is difficult to do this without maxing out your power, so you hardly ever get to utilize the bonus, and they suck anyway.


Possible solution(must incorporate ALL of these):

A) First, make those abilities trigger with 3 charges or more, not five. This plays directly into his S3 which automatically gives you 3 charges. Also gives you the ability to actually use S1 to its fullest extent realistically.

B] 8 second power lock on S1 is terrible for the risk involved. Instead, make it so it locks out S3 until the opponent next uses a special attack. This allows you to go ham with JF if you are skilled, instead of having to break off and bait.

C) JF gains power rate for each charge. They should also reduce opponent power rate by the same amount per charge. It makes total sense considering his play mechanics.

D) To pair with the 15 second repair block, I feel JF needs to also get some kind of Crit buff or melee buff to compliment it. Something modest, like +3% per energy charge converted for the duration of the repair block.


JF problem #3

Some players believe he needs a push back on melee parry. To accomplish this you need Mixmaster in the party, as he adds the concussive block aspect players are looking for.

Possible solution : none required. Rank Mix and learn to use him!



And there you have it. Not groundbreaking stuff, but a little adjustment to his skillset and play mechanics, and I think he will be very interesting in the hands of skilled players.


Please feel free to weigh in on his topic. Constructive posts only please.

Comments

  • Jazz444Jazz444 Posts: 2,021
    Once my Jetfire and Dinobot teamed up in the arena
    When Dinobot is shielding (with Jetfire in the group ) you give the opponent a power burn 👍
  • Jazz444Jazz444 Posts: 2,021
    I still think Jetfire stinks the only thing good about Jetfire is he looks good
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Jazz444 wrote: »
    I still think Jetfire stinks the only thing good about Jetfire is he looks good

    Yeah... Hence the reason I'm suggesting some changes.
  • Totally agree with everything you've posted, you've clearly put some thought into how the underlying mechanics affect his overall playability.

    In terms of how the actual process of building charges works, I posted an idea in another thread so I'm just gonna copy paste that into here too:

    Give him a percentage chance to gain an energy charge on all blocks, and 100% chance on well-timed blocks. Reflect only on well timed blocks. This would make Jetfire feel much more accessible and far less counterintuitive, and would make him a more interesting opponent. Pressuring Jetfire too hard will force energy charges and repairs, so players may have to open up and counter more to cut off his supply.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    Explain to me why it's hard to build charges with his sig? I haven't played with him under any challenging conditions etc so I'm not 100% on his mechanics yet.

    Was surprised to see this was posted by you, knowing you're a Dino player. Thought the block mechanic would suit you down to the ground!
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    edited December 2018
    Because holding block for one sec means JF starts feeding on his own charges to gain health. So you have to be quick to release JF from parrying. But if two or more shots arrive, you have no other choice than holding block after the first parry.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    Because holding block for one sec means JF starts feeding on his own charges to gain health. So you have to be quick to release JF from parrying. But if two or more shots arrive, you have no other choice than holding block after the first parry.

    ok, I see. So yeah, it's a case of parrying the one hit and dodging or use your charges if below 75% HP?

    Can he only heal back up to 75% or can he heal beyond it?

    Kind of makes his Synergy with Mix important, to interrupt the combo rather than blocking through it, without any changes
  • kranderskranders Posts: 479
    These days I think anything getting fixed, updated, or balanced is a joke. There are some simple fixes that could be quick but it seems people just want more OP bots like Megatronus.

    S1 - I agree change S1 power lock to three charges. Most times the power rate pushes you into S2. Have s1 be 3 and s2 be 5 charges. For s1, it seems regardless of the range speed increase it does not track sidestepping. Unlike Mirage and Arcee which benefit greatly from the range speed buffs. I don't understand why/how it's different but... kabam.

    S2 - It's pretty useless but could receive a simple fix. I think heal bock is pretty useless especially if you're going to waste 5 charges instead of just using s3. Multiple options could be viable to make it better:

    Overall Damage Reduction: The shield should block more damage per charge.

    With 5 charges:
    Overcharge: While the shield is active you gain a charge for each block, or two charges per parry, or a set number of charges over time
    Shock Block: While the shield is active JF has shock block with damage reduction. Damage could be based on charges
    Energy Burn: While the shield is active his block burns energy with damage reduction, a parry doubles the burn
    Energon Shield: Turn his shield into Energon Shield with duration based on charges

    I don't think he needs pushback as I said in another post holding block after a parry reduces damage enough when you factor in that he can heal.

    He's certainly no Hound. He's a glass canon. Getting charges is not that hard but right now he doesn't have much utility beyond s3.

    Again the likelihood of any of it happening is about zero but hooray for brainstorming and theorycraft.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    lmao why has someone flagged that post? So strange.

    On the subject of tracking - does Hound track off his ranged sig ability? I don't think it does. Or does Demotron off his sp2? Would be interesting to figure out the difference.
  • Darm0kDarm0k Posts: 2,485
    Good suggestions. Still wish there was a better payoff for parrying a ranged heavy. Haven’t tried it so I don’t know, but does parrying a melee heavy prevent the block from being broken?

    Anyways, I’m sure these suggestions will be taken to the team and worked on like how they did for Tantrum.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    Darm0k wrote: »
    Good suggestions. Still wish there was a better payoff for parrying a ranged heavy. Haven’t tried it so I don’t know, but does parrying a melee heavy prevent the block from being broken?

    Anyways, I’m sure these suggestions will be taken to the team and worked on like how they did for Tantrum.

    Can't block a melee heavy... Although heavy block would be an amazing skill to put in on S2 when converting 5+ charges.

    Wishful thinking, as heavy block would push JF into the realm of OP.
  • kranderskranders Posts: 479
    DaveJL wrote: »
    lmao why has someone flagged that post? So strange.

    On the subject of tracking - does Hound track off his ranged sig ability? I don't think it does. Or does Demotron off his sp2? Would be interesting to figure out the difference.

    Too bad you can’t see who flagged. Oh well. As far as I’ve seen they are the only two that track. I thought it was based on ranged the speed but doesn’t seem to be. Starscream is another example where it doesn’t track with the s1 buff.

    Also if you parry and hold block it does not immediately begin healing. I regularly parry the three ranged or parry a combo blocking all hits without healing. I believe the time starts when you haven’t been hit for a set time after a parry. So as long as you parry and hold through the combo you won’t heal but you need to release after the last hit or after the last ranged hit.
  • DrShotgunDrShotgun Posts: 2,157
    DaveJL wrote: »
    lmao why has someone flagged that post? So strange.

    On the subject of tracking - does Hound track off his ranged sig ability? I don't think it does. Or does Demotron off his sp2? Would be interesting to figure out the difference.

    People flag Manthro just to flag Manthro. I think it's a grudge thing.
    On the ideas here....I love them. Shockwave is in my top ranks and I plan on eventually using JF as a support bot, so I'd love for him to be useful beyond a medic synergy.
  • Tried having test runs if he is as less good as hound.
    Well, he's far worse as well useless.
    But whenever his Parry shield reflect it feels great , ..and funny when Galvatron fires volley of three blasts, and immediately heavy attacks to get interrupted by his own shots.
  • KittenKitten Posts: 1,897
    bcyd6l7a7l89.jpeg
    DrShotgun wrote: »
    DaveJL wrote: »
    lmao why has someone flagged that post? So strange.

    On the subject of tracking - does Hound track off his ranged sig ability? I don't think it does. Or does Demotron off his sp2? Would be interesting to figure out the difference.

    People flag Manthro just to flag Manthro. I think it's a grudge thing.
    On the ideas here....I love them. Shockwave is in my top ranks and I plan on eventually using JF as a support bot, so I'd love for him to be useful beyond a medic synergy.

  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited December 2018
    Tried having test runs if he is as less good as hound.
    Well, he's far worse as well useless.
    But whenever his Parry shield reflect it feels great , ..and funny when Galvatron fires volley of three blasts, and immediately heavy attacks to get interrupted by his own shots.

    Well.... This is 7 seconds of my life I'll never get back.

    69gk3ct2htjb.jpg
  • DrShotgunDrShotgun Posts: 2,157
    Manthro wrote: »
    Darm0k wrote: »
    Good suggestions. Still wish there was a better payoff for parrying a ranged heavy. Haven’t tried it so I don’t know, but does parrying a melee heavy prevent the block from being broken?

    Anyways, I’m sure these suggestions will be taken to the team and worked on like how they did for Tantrum.

    Can't block a melee heavy... Although heavy block would be an amazing skill to put in on S2 when converting 5+ charges.

    Wishful thinking, as heavy block would push JF into the realm of OP.

    I reflected a heavy from a Shark today. Surprised me as I didn't think it was possible.
  • DrShotgun wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    Darm0k wrote: »
    Good suggestions. Still wish there was a better payoff for parrying a ranged heavy. Haven’t tried it so I don’t know, but does parrying a melee heavy prevent the block from being broken?

    Anyways, I’m sure these suggestions will be taken to the team and worked on like how they did for Tantrum.

    Can't block a melee heavy... Although heavy block would be an amazing skill to put in on S2 when converting 5+ charges.

    Wishful thinking, as heavy block would push JF into the realm of OP.

    I reflected a heavy from a Shark today. Surprised me as I didn't think it was possible.

    Yeah it actually is possible. I was able to reflect Ironhide''s heavies back at him and that was pretty fun. Wish he could reflect specials, that may be a tad bit powerful but I would appreciate that than the lackluster character that is Jefire. He may be a tomato, but he''s a rotten tomato.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    DrShotgun wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    Darm0k wrote: »
    Good suggestions. Still wish there was a better payoff for parrying a ranged heavy. Haven’t tried it so I don’t know, but does parrying a melee heavy prevent the block from being broken?

    Anyways, I’m sure these suggestions will be taken to the team and worked on like how they did for Tantrum.

    Can't block a melee heavy... Although heavy block would be an amazing skill to put in on S2 when converting 5+ charges.

    Wishful thinking, as heavy block would push JF into the realm of OP.

    I reflected a heavy from a Shark today. Surprised me as I didn't think it was possible.

    It says you can reflect heavy ranged in the skill description.

    Sometimes I wonder about the player base.
  • DrShotgunDrShotgun Posts: 2,157
    Manthro wrote: »
    DrShotgun wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    Darm0k wrote: »
    Good suggestions. Still wish there was a better payoff for parrying a ranged heavy. Haven’t tried it so I don’t know, but does parrying a melee heavy prevent the block from being broken?

    Anyways, I’m sure these suggestions will be taken to the team and worked on like how they did for Tantrum.

    Can't block a melee heavy... Although heavy block would be an amazing skill to put in on S2 when converting 5+ charges.

    Wishful thinking, as heavy block would push JF into the realm of OP.

    I reflected a heavy from a Shark today. Surprised me as I didn't think it was possible.

    It says you can reflect heavy ranged in the skill description.

    Sometimes I wonder about the player base.

    Dude you know I don't actually read half the stuff I post, much less pay attention to the things I read:)
    I learn by doing. Hands ON
  • Maybe his sign can purify shocks too, and generate 5% Power per Burn and Shock purified.
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