Upcoming Changes to Raids

Commanders!

We've just announced a fairly large update to the Raid System! Read all about it here: http://forums.transformersforgedtofight.com/discussion/1790/version-3-0-raid-changes

Questions? Comments? Concerns? Let us know in this discussion thread!
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Comments

  • TotherkinsTotherkins Posts: 177
    Looks like pretty good changes overall! Hope more various items come into the raid store as well.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 372
    At first I wasn't sure about this, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Yeah it'll be brutal for the first few raids, but then I think things will become better than they are now. At least then I can successfully defend my base more than 5% of the time.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 372
    Another thing I'm really excited about is that for the first time(?) we have back-to-back raid events. These always get me raiding more, since I have at least one reward that can't be taken away from me. Good work guys!
    P.S. Any way Harm Accelerator could stop stacking bleeds if I block/evade the special? That would be great.
  • Frugalli88Frugalli88 Posts: 32
    Will revenge be available, if it gets fixed?
  • BigbowlrBigbowlr Posts: 26
    I hate that you need 10k to buy the 3*. Unless your increase the amount of chips won, you're expecting the player base to win between 70-100 raids a week for a single 3*. It would have been a nice ADDITION but to flat out remove the crystals is just forcing players to grind half the week for a single 3*. Please keep the crystals and just add the option of the 3*
  • Frugalli88 wrote: »
    Will revenge be available, if it gets fixed?

    We do have a fix coming for Revenge. It won't be in place for this event, but is not far off!
  • CandKane wrote: »
    At first I wasn't sure about this, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Yeah it'll be brutal for the first few raids, but then I think things will become better than they are now. At least then I can successfully defend my base more than 5% of the time.

    That was a big goal here. Players have spent a lot of time and effort ranking up their defenders and Mods, and this was one of the reasons that successful Base defenses seemed so rare.
  • FeraltCFeraltC Posts: 1
    edited August 25
    Two questions.

    First, will the raid 'matchmaking' be determined strictly via medal count, or will other factors be taken into account, such as your player or base rating?

    Second, could we get a spreadsheet for how raid rewards scale with medal count?
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 638
    edited August 25
    Can you confirm if I am interpreting this correctly... Feature crystals being removed from store in favour of direct purchase of 3* bot?

    Me no like this change. I don't think many players will appreciate it either.

    This actually decreases my motivation to raid. It doesn't entice me whatsoever. You have successfully removed any way of obtaining new (previous) 4* feature bots for free.

    It's not like they dropped very often in the first place. Of all the feature crystals I've earned for free, I've pulled a single 4* bot and it happened to be Grimlock.

    Odds are I'll never pull another grimlock for free, but this motivates me to spend to get a dupe!

    You remove this aspect of the game and you are actually reducing motivation to spend as well.
  • RuffRuff Posts: 9
    When will we get a chance to get 2* version of prowl. I need him to max forge my 3* prowl?
  • DirculesDircules Posts: 273
    At the top this means nothing. My 11k base will get ripped to shreds by anyone with a half decent team. And consequently my better-than-most team will not have issue with any of the bases currently in place. The only ones I avoid are the ones with an R3 Megatron as top bot because LGM is more broken than HA.

    I am not sure what the goal for this is. Best players at the top? Right now it's just a leaderboard of most active raiders. That won't change no matter what you do, except now you soft-cap how high some weaker players can climb. I thought it was nice that it just requires some activity to reach the levels required to gain Alpha sparks.

    Change is good though, cause raids were just a chore to be done every day. Curious how this will work out.
  • DirculesDircules Posts: 273
    I have a question too. Is anything going to be done about the frequency with which you can be raided? The current 3 hits and your out of the raid pool seems a bit ... clunky? I am a big fan of the way it was done in Clash of Clans, where a successful hit on your base activates a shield for a semi long period of time giving you time to recoup your losses by going to raid a couple of times when you next log on. Of course in that game raiding was much more important to your resources. But it might help here too with availability of opponents. Instead of permanents being out of the pool, just do repeated shields. If it fades, you get hit and a new shield. Also notification that you are about to break shield opening yourself up for retaliation would be most welcome.

    Currently I don't see that I got hit until I close the game and restart, this has caused me to think that I could do another raid while still only being hit back 3 times, but in reality I'd already been raided twice. Causing me to lose a lot more medals than I anticipated. Not that they matter, but I like them.
  • lilbeastielilbeastie Posts: 71
    I don't like the idea of only 1 opponent- sometimes I'm short on time so will hit the easiest base I'm offered, other times I'll hit the one with the most chips even when it's the hardest because I want the chips. And sometimes choosing between bases added another element to the game as bases rated the same can be quite different to attack depending on the bots and mods in place. It sounds like your taking all that away which is a shame.

    Surely a better way to achieve a better raid medal table would be just to award medals based on the strength of the base attacked? Say 100 medals for a 10k bases and 40 medals for a 4K base. That way attacking harder bases and having a stronger defence would move you up the table, and repeatedly going after softer bases wouldn't increase your medals much. Your method just seems to restrict the player and will likely mean some people (me included) will raid less as I won't get the choice I like.

    I like the bot purchase idea, but how many chips will be awarded? Same as now with 110 from a successful raid? If so it'll probably make me raid less than the crystals, as I don't have the time to raid 91 times in a week so I know I'll never get the bot.

    I strongly suspect these changes will reduce the amount of raiding that's done, not increase it. Good move Kabam. Has this actually been play-tested by anyone?
  • tekkn1kaltekkn1kal Posts: 256
    Definitely hating the guaranteed 3* trade for chance at 4*. Big time.

    ZERO reason to raid now.
  • Timer should not be counting down when we are in loading screen this is some bs. Sometime I spent about 1min1/2 just to load a fight. Oh then again blame it on my device. Please do something about it.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 944
    Well you now have 20 minutes instead of 15, think that is more than sufficient
  • KrugaKruga Posts: 121
    edited August 26
    @Kabam Miike
    Limiting the choice of opponent does not fix the ranking and medal count, because it does not fix the situation that players drop the rank by throwing fights away or putting up easy bases for other to win. If any, it makes these issue more problematic cause now instead of able to choose the right opponents for the bots you are putting in Raid, dropping rank seems to be the only sure fire ways to get easy fights.

    The real complain players has is in fact NOT about the match-ups, but rather the inability to accumulate raid chips. Why? Because you penalised anyone who accumulate raid chips by taking away 10% of it whenever a defence failed. Why don't you limit the number of raid chip lost to a smaller % (like maybe 1%), and award significantly more chips for people who dare taking up the fight to harder opponent (e.g. base on total bot rating and base rating). This would definitely entice players to go for players that are higher in base rating.

    All these change can be done without taking away the choice of opponents from the players, cause you can definitely match player with easy (0.5x the regular raid chips), medium (regular raid chips) and hard (2.0x raid chips) even base on what you are proposing to do in 28Aug
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 434
    edited August 26
    There's a lot of details missing about how this is going to work. The actual numbers of chips and how bases are going to line up etc.

    Unfortunately, based on how things have been going recently I have zero confidence that it's going to be balanced.

    There are many issues with the information presented (in no order):

    1. Shockwave chips will scale with medals
    How much will they scale? The current scaling is extremely poor, it only goes up from 100 to 110 over a very large medal range.

    2. You also called it a "temporary change"
    Which parts are temporary? 3* is temporary or the removal of character crystals? Both? something else? How does the temporary change help us ease in to the new system?

    3. Health penalty for crash on load.
    Crash on load penalty (not during the fight, but on load) was removed from AM. This issue has been completely ignored. Why is it not being fixed?

    4. Harm accelerator
    It's is still a problem, and an even bigger problem on max rank bots. The damage it outputs is completely out of line compared to every other mod.

    5. "These two go hand in hand and rely very heavily on each other".
    This update mentions nothing about changing or improving bases. How can one be radically changed and still work effectively with the other when they're so intrinsically linked?

    6. "opponent will be selected based on their performance in Raids in relation to yours"
    What does this even mean? You're saying it's not medals but something else.. but later you say it's medals? Does it mean matches could be hundreds of medals different? Is it just using win percentage?

    "There is currently no clear performance based indicator that we can use as a metric of performance."
    How can it select opponents based on performance? Maybe refreshes should be free until the system sorts itself out, or some other bonus, instead of the player base being beta testers and having to waste all our tickets at the start phase when it's not working, because it has no indicator.

    7. "as matches occur the system will correct itself and give players more appropriate matchups based on their medal count"
    So what is it? based on performance or based on medal count? What about before it corrects itself, what is it using as indicators because you said there are none? We just have to suffer through it?

    8. Refreshing Raid Opponents
    If you can still refresh, what's the point of reducing it from 3 to 1? Why do we need a refresh in the new system if it's only one instead of three choices? You're just making it more expensive to get the same result. Refresh two times you have to pay instead of having it for free in the current system. These two things contradict each other in terms of the purpose that has been described. Refreshes should be completely removed or kept the same as 3 choices or give 2 free refresh per raid ticket. This last option is the best sounding one (it's still risky, because you can't go back to the previous choice, but you have some control and some balance for the match maker not being perfect so people don't have wasted tickets on impossible match ups just like in the current system).

    9. "Players have noted multiple times that no matter how much time they’ve put into the Bots and Mods on their bases, there doesn’t seem to be anything that they can do to defend themselves from an Attacker."
    The solution here is to improve bases and the defense system, not completely change the attackers.

    10. "Players have noted multiple times that no matter how much time they’ve put into the Bots and Mods on their bases, there doesn’t seem to be anything that they can do to defend themselves from an Attacker."
    I haven't seen anyone complaining about the attacker system on the forums. It's all from the defence perspective. It actually seems like people are happy with how attacking works, you've actually got something that isn't too bad, the 2.0 update to raids was well received, why on Earth you'd want to break something that is actually working in this game is beyond my mind.
  • TrailfireTrailfire Posts: 386
    I said elsewhere but will add here, I can't see the point of removing the featured crystals. I much prefer the newly proposed model over the currently existing one, but I just can't see any reason to remove those crystals as an option. I think they were popular.

    What wasn't popular was how steep the price curve for them was. Lowering that so it actually becomes plausible that someone might get the final item makes much more sense than removing a popular item from sale in my view.
  • TrailfireTrailfire Posts: 386
    On defense, it's a very fine balance. People want to win the occasional defense, but they hate losing offenses. No idea how you're gonna balance this and I don't envy the task.

    Obviously most people have much stronger bots in offense than defense, because the rewards for offense are greater. I wonder if this will affect that kind of decision or not? It depends what you get for defensive wins relative to offensive wins I suppose.

    But the fact that raid teams are always stronger than defense teams makes defense much harder. My base is about 8k, but I can reliably beat a 12k base. It's very hard to build up my base beyond 8k because whatever resources I have that don't go into ranking new 4* to 2/20 go into forging my AM team.

    Forging so far has been a much more fruitful use of surplus bots than defense has been. I'm not sure how this affects that trade off either.

    Well, it'll be different anyway. Probably will have to wait and see to really find out exactly how it works
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 638
    I doubt Kabam will give specific details on how the new matchmaking system will work @Terminal

    Doing that will only allow players to find an exploit to it.
  • KrugaKruga Posts: 121
    edited August 26
    Manthro wrote: »
    I doubt Kabam will give specific details on how the new matchmaking system will work @Terminal

    Doing that will only allow players to find an exploit to it.
    Players would eventually find a way to exploit it anyway, the reason why Kabam are not telling how the matchup works in more detail is just because they know they do not have a real solution to this.

    From what I got from the announcement is that they are not changing anything in the match up but just forcing everyone to take the match they think is the most matched. And players still can game the system if they have enough energon and money
  • nomisunomisu Posts: 123
    anyone noticed the AI base (Quintesson or whatever) seem to have disappeared?
  • ZapperZapper Posts: 129
    O.K so the raid system needs a drastic change because it's completly broken and there isn't a lot of incentive to actually do it. I'm willing to give your changes a shot, since it can hardly become worse.

    What DEFINITLY is worse is changing featured crystals for a guaranteed 3* bot with an ABSURD amount of chips. You really expect me to do 70-100 raids (we can even LOOSE chips now) to get a 3* bot? Lol, if anyone wants to do that, be my guest, I won't.

    Unless you hardcore grind arena, another 3* is going to do absolutly nothing to your roster at this point. I can easily wait until Shockwave is in the normal crystals, thank you. (and if I really want him I'll buy a crystal pack for 20$, that's a bargain compared to the amount of hours I would have to put into raids)

    Also how on earth is this supposed to "easy somebody into the new system"? Sorry Miiike, but if you don't bring featured crystals back you can do with raids what you want, I have no interest in doing them.
  • Hmm not sure why you wouldn't mirror the arena format somewhat with opponent options. All this over complication is probably why nothing works right.
    I'm a little concerned about removing the feature crystal too. Can't we have an option to buy the crystal or a 3*? That should be very simple and keep interest for all player levels. It's always one or the other with you guys and it doesn't have to be.
    And how do you expect to get an accurate system going when you haven't fixed the crash penalty problem. I've quit more than a few raids I could of easily won because I was so POed. People don't like wasting time on broken junk that doesn't operate correctly.
  • BumblebeeBumblebee Posts: 151
    Wow, 3* through raid chips? I'm really liking this :)
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 434
    Bumblebee wrote: »
    Wow, 3* through raid chips? I'm really liking this :)

    It's not through raid chips, it's through character chips. 10,000 character chips is about 100 raids in the current system. Kabam has not bothered to say how they're going to change character chip acquisition to be more realistic or not.

    It also means you have to choose between the 3* and 2* as they use the same resource.
  • Spidey076Spidey076 Posts: 214
    Have a question for these changes in raid,new version will be roll out for these changes or it will automatically change without updating?
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 638
    Read the announcement. The date is in there.
  • BumblebeeBumblebee Posts: 151
    Terminal wrote: »
    Bumblebee wrote: »
    Wow, 3* through raid chips? I'm really liking this :)

    It's not through raid chips, it's through character chips. 10,000 character chips is about 100 raids in the current system. Kabam has not bothered to say how they're going to change character chip acquisition to be more realistic or not.

    It also means you have to choose between the 3* and 2* as they use the same resource.

    Oh, very well then. Thank you.

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