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AI using unfair abilities
DrShotgun
Posts: 2,157
I've noticed several bots I've gone up against being able to evade after being hot on the first hit of a special, as well as being able to trigger sp3 while in the middle of a combo.
This is not cool. AI should not have special advantages that bots just don't have. I was just fighting a maxed 3* Grindor during a raid. I was in the middle of a combo when he triggered his sp3...so much so the sound effect of my swords hitting him we're still playing during the Grindor animation. There have been complaints about this before with Arcee and Sideswipe and the answer was "they're supposed to do that"
If that's the case why can't I make MY Arcee and Sideswipe do it then?
Answers? Fixes?
This is not cool. AI should not have special advantages that bots just don't have. I was just fighting a maxed 3* Grindor during a raid. I was in the middle of a combo when he triggered his sp3...so much so the sound effect of my swords hitting him we're still playing during the Grindor animation. There have been complaints about this before with Arcee and Sideswipe and the answer was "they're supposed to do that"
If that's the case why can't I make MY Arcee and Sideswipe do it then?
Answers? Fixes?
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Comments
For "AI doing special when hitting by a combo", maybe it's not a bug. Because if you a one frame late in your normal combo, AI can enter neutral state and do whatever they want. AI's combo is often (intentionally?) flawed and gives you additional time to backstep during blocking. Although we humans register combos better than AI, we can make mistakes sometimes.
The short answer to the OP is that the AI was given some buffs to counter having to face human intelligence, although they only occasionally result in a stolen fight.
Watch gameplay, it actually is. Not by much, just a few frames at a time, and I admit it needs some advantages vs a human, but Kabam has said that the bots can't do anything human can't, and that is demonstrably false.
A lot of the things they say are demonstrably false ("Crystals don't look at your account..."). And a lot of the things they say are not demonstrably false, but still probably false. Some things are actually true. Just can't take the word of them on the forum anymore which is really sad.
Just look at Soundwave. My awakened Soundwave can't gain power until I use a heavy attack, and then is power locked at the second special. The AI Soundwave gains power immediately, even if it never uses a heavy attack, and suffers no power lock. There are a million other ways the game is designed to cheat us, and they are blatantly obvious, and utterly offensive. They are coded into the game purposefully. They're easy to recognize.
However I have seen in arenas with ai vs ai what looks like out right cheating on the opponents side.
Things like backstepping during a s1/2 and blocking with no evade text or bots that dont have evade skills.
I've been watching ai vs ai in the arena a lot lately and I don't see any specific patterns, there's still randomness in the same (i.e. same matchups on the same day) fights when they're repeated.
For example; at lower levels, it's responsiveness to block is much more lethargic than higher levels. At higher levels, it's harder for you to "catch the AI sleeping"... whereas it's very quick to respond to your actions.
There was one fight where the AI had a Special 2 ready to use and I was trying to bait it to use it (while holding down block)... the instant (like literally exact moment) that I gambled and lifted my finger off the block to move in order to bait it, it immediately closed in and executed the special. I thought I was quick enough to recover and hit the block again but it was too late.
So... in essence, is it "cheating"? Again, I don't know if that's the right term to use, but rather, digital input of the AI is simply much faster than the human fingers to act and respond at high levels.
It seems to use every legit advantage available as quick as possible at high levels.
It's frustrating, I will admit that.
I wonder if it's a lag thing where your input is a little delayed giving the AI a chance to counter.
Watching UM (backstep) dodge 6-7 melee attacks in a row like its nothing, while cornered, is a great example of times when it feels like the AI is working through an algorithm that says you are not allowed to do damage to this bot until it does some damage to you first.
I used to hate that too.. until I learned how to do it myself. I'll sit on the wall of the arena and backstep BC s2 with good timing, and watch him whiff on all three hits, for example.
Once you have the confidence and timing down, you feel like you are never in danger vs the AI
That being said, the ai godlike frame perfect long string of back steps become tedious.
Also, it's hard for us humans to dodge when we get constant lag and freezes.
A great man once said, 'death by lag vs waspinator is not fun'.
Sometimes there's no choice but to block and take damage because it might freeze when you backstep or sidestep and end up dead.
So I think they could tone it down a bit on the AI backsteps.
I seriously hate going up against a Bumblbee in any expert missions, it's just a nightmare. The expert gauntlet almost made me want to throw my phone against the wall.
Haha, damn that spotlight sucked at the time.
I don't know why you wanted to bring up a 3 month old post, but there it is. Ad hominem aside, software is literally a set of rules. It *has* to obey them. Just because you don't know what the rules are doesn't mean the AI is "cheating". What's going on, is that you don't know how the game works - that's quite different
People have already explained why your example about SW is a perfect demonstration of confusing ignorance of the rules for "cheating" (what you described SW doing is exactly what SW is supposed to do, and exactly what he does if you're controlling him)
Most of the other comments sounds like people just aren't timing their hits well enough. I agree it can be tricky to get used to, and it isn't exactly the same as MCOC, but that doesn't mean there's "cheating" going on, it means if you're not careful, you can leave small gaps where an opponent can respond by either blocking, dashing back or sideways, activating a special or or launching an attack. You can also do that. The AI often leaves visually obvious gaps in its combo and I routinely intercept combos part way through
This whole conversation is either a case of "players don't know the rules" or "players haven't practiced enough". I promise you that none of the things mentioned happens unless you allow it to happen (or they're a particular skill that enables it), and that you can also do them all if your opponent makes an equivalent mistake. The more you practice the more you'll see what the errors are that can be exploited in both directions and the fewer errors you'll make
The lag/freezing is a different matter. It usually begins slowly and then works itself into a fit, so if you notice a few small lags, it's a good idea to let your phone cool down for a while - it's pretty much always related to over heating in my experience
The "frame perfect" stuff... I don't understand why anyone thinks that's unfair. It can be annoying, sure, but it's pretty clearly fair. Raptor explained it fairly well I think
@Stitch626, if the opponent is onto your moves, change them up! Don't maintain a combo if the opponent is successfully back stepping, you're just asking to eat the counterpunch in the face. If you don't land the first blow, back off straight away and try to set up the next combo. Often you have to actually create an opening, because the AI usually responds to you. If you're shooting a lot, they often shoot a lot and intercept your ranged attacks. If you're doing heavies a lot, they start dodging a lot. It's totally possible to create openings against any bot (granted, some are harder than others)
Yes. Sometimes when Grindor fires his missile at you at close range, you either take the missile, or sidestep and take his instant melee. I can do this with Barricade myself, not the others.
Yes I think there is indeed a fight algorithm, difference is clear to see when compared to begining of a fight to the end of a fight, AI seem to be at lower level at begin and tuned to 11 when close to dying. Like, (do x amount of damage before dying, by any means)
I also believe there are differnt AI levels, this is clear in Arena, when auto fight with equal power bots at lower streak, 90% player win, then at streak 50, the auto fight winning chance for player with equal bots is less than 50%. I think this is reasonable to use in arena however still proofs they coded AI in a way that use different AI level based on other parameters before or during fight
Also blocking is a huge problem, the AI will just block for days and Kabam knows it! Too many mods which empower the opponents blocking, shock block, heavy block, reflect ranged.. But the most infamous are the focus power gain and defensive power gain, these mods make me want to rip someone’s face off! (Yes, that’s a rotf reference, I’ll take you all on!)
Focus power gain: This one isn’t as bad as the other but it will be the bane of your existence if you haven’t got a bot with a melee heavy attack. The AI will block and there’s nothing you can do, refuses to use special 2 and there’s nothing you can do, used special 3 and there’s nothing you can do.
Defensive power gain: Oh god this nasty bugger... pretty much the same as focus power gain except you’re dead melee heavy or not... The AI will block and there’s nothing you can do, refuses to use special 2 and there’s nothing you can do, used special 3 and there’s nothing you can do.
Argh!! The AI needs to be fixed in 5.0!
Sometimes it takes a whole minute or two just to make the AI use a special 2 so they don’t use special 3 and that happens often, and all it does is corner you! It would be cool if you could make the fighting arenas bigger to prevent cornering but I don’t think it would make much of a difference..
The AI is cheap. Please fix it.