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Arena AI difficulty levels and problems

I am a season MCOC arena grinder, arena grinding is a very important part of this type of game and I wanted to raise some concern for an issue that I'm noticing already. The main thing that the developers need to understand about arena is that it is a repetitive process that is on going. It does not need to be extremely difficult and it does not need to have varying difficulties especially when a streak has already been achieved. I fully understand the need to have a type of "road block" system in place to stop folks from keeping a 3X multiplier in arena while using a team of unranked characters. It should be a requirement to rank your bots before being able to fully use them for arena grinds. I do disagree with the idea of having various AI difficulties in arena once you have already got past the "Hard" matches. Every few matches I run into a bot or two that have "God like" skill every projectile they dodge and every attack and special they evade without flaw. I am a pretty good fighter and have had 50+ hit streaks in story quests in act II. There should be no reason for me to be forced into losing my arena streak because the AI decides to go full Rambo on me. This is aggravating and un-enjoyable for me and many other arena players. I do believe there is a bug that needs fixing in arena. I plan on becoming a permanent grinder here and would like this issue addressed, thank you.
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Comments

  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    This is not a bug sadly they actually tweaked with that ai during beta it got even crazier for a brief while. With that being said their reasoning was they wanted to make it more challenging than just grindfest and this is due to all the complaints of grinders taking top spots in arena. I don't see it fixing problem either . But yes some beta players quit due to this I believe.
  • Yeah I've been switching between story mode in act 2 and arena. Literally ALL the fights in arena are noticeably harder than story mode. The difficulty in story mode is great, it can be challenging at times but is not hard to the point of being stressful making it Unenjoyable. This is my current arena streak which I've been able to maintain thankfully but I'm playing in an extreme amount of stress an pressure as the AI makes it very stressful for me. This is not due to skill but just that the AI is turned up WAY TOO HIGH in general that my 2/20 champ is losing to a 1/10 champ based completely on the perfect way my opponent is fighting me that my human reaction time limits can not beat for the love of GOD fix this ASAP.uxjghuw4ff9z.png
  • Thanks for the insight
    Mustangjon wrote: »
    This is not a bug sadly they actually tweaked with that ai during beta it got even crazier for a brief while. With that being said their reasoning was they wanted to make it more challenging than just grindfest and this is due to all the complaints of grinders taking top spots in arena. I don't see it fixing problem either . But yes some beta players quit due to this I believe.

    Still this is the wrong approach. Making arena punishing forcing people to lose streak is not the way. If they really want to slow down arena point grinders then they need to change the arena refresh times to 3 or 4 hours instead of two. That will lower arena scores without screwing the grinders over, punishing us for no reason. We are playing your game, why ruin an integral part of the game with this unnecessary level of difficulty?

  • Tezz001Tezz001 Posts: 53
    I like this game, although I didn't think I would, and the arena is a good way to get the rewards to get new bots, upgrades, gold etc, but like feathers said the au just seems to be too insane at times. There have been fights where I've got the opponent down to a slither of health, then suddenly nothing I do does any damage, and by this time my fingers are hurting and I know I'm slipping, and ultimately lose the battle where I should have been able to give the final blow and moved on to the next battle. I thought it was just me, I'm not used to this type of game, I'm older than I'd like to admit at times haha.

    Also whilst we are on this subject, the system to match up your opponent seems to be extremely unfair after just a couple of win streaks into the Grind, I'm finding that the opponent is at least a couple hundred power above my current bots. How's that a match?!

    In the real world, in a professional fight, you wouldn't expect to pit a featherweight against a heavy weight in order to advance in a tournament.

    Anyway, whilst I do think it's an unfair system, it's my choice to grind, I can choose not to, and not get the rewards. But I would like a little balance brought back into the game.

    (P.s. excuse the rambling, and if it doesn't make sense, then that could be because I'm tired, and the grind is wearing me down, physically and mentally.)

    Oh on a different note, how about adding some additional event type missions, give us ways to earn ore-13 and tier 2, 3 basic spark in addition to the spark quests.

    Tezz
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    All I can think is that after I hit a x13 or so streak, the computer starts throwing bots at me that would be right at home in a Korean Street Fighter tournament. When I see x50+ streaks my first, second, and third thought is someone's abusing a glitch in the AI that I don't know about.
  • MootMoot Posts: 52
    most beta players in the top 10 alliances can get x50 or more. The AI does follow certain patterns and the more you play, the easier it gets to get higher streaks. It usually gets challenging after x20, AI will chain combo you down then dodge most attacks.
    Also theres the streak killer bug that causes you to lose the first match, the devs have yet to fix this
  • I won't be getting infinite win streaks for a long time as far as I can see. The bot pool isn't even really big enough to leave behind sand bag 3 stars which is what I had to do for MCOC.

    I have no idea what the combination of ranks to use to get passed 15 but highest I've gotten is 11 so far and they start getting squirrely as HELL on me already.
  • Thanks for the feedback guys, like I said I agree with the kill teams up to match 15... up to then you need max champs to run. I refresh my teams to get there but once I've invested that energon I feel insulted that the AI can still fight at a level that none of us players can match. I am aware of the fight 1 bug where the AI is crazy insane but I'm speaking in general. The AI in arena is harder than story mode and I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with that. Bugs aside arena needs to be reworked.
  • I have a streak of 136. At first the AI was hard for me, but as I play the game longer it become easy and make me a better player. I like AI in arena is harder than the AI in Mcoc Arena.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    Well the ai getting more difficult is from people whining its not fair and grinding isn't hard it should be skill based for years with mcoc and this. So blame the fellow players. With that being said you can't have your cake and eat it too
  • I have a streak of 136. At first the AI was hard for me, but as I play the game longer it become easy and make me a better player. I like AI in arena is harder than the AI in Mcoc Arena.

    I am very skilled, that's not the issue. The problem that a very skilled player like me is dying. I haven't lost streak yet but I need to focus way too hard to maintain streak which makes the experience slower and unenjoyable. I'm using several 2/20 teams as well. The matchups are fair but the AI is not. The hard matches (6-15) are sufficient challenge bro, no need for arena to be a completely difficult part of the game. If you want a challenge that bad then lose your streak and do it again but don't throw that on the player base most folks cannot survive these fights. I only do cause I'm a SAVAGE!!!
  • TotherkinsTotherkins Posts: 299
    People, will adapt. Just cause you're losing streak at 57 nown, doesn't mean you'll lose it like that forever. I enjoy the fact that arenas are a tool to help you get better and consisedered a challenge. Mcoc grinding was a snoozefest.
  • 1Pharaoh1Pharaoh Posts: 36
    The increased in difficulty for arenas makes the grinding fun and your streak means something. It also makes great practice. Those guaranteed W's in mcoc was boring and made grinding more of a chore.
  • I am also an arena grinder, although to a lesser extent due to time limitations. Arena is the best way to get gold, so I have to grind it to upgrade my bots. What I've been seeing is the AI difficulty will sometimes ramp up for no obvious reason. I am not good enough to maintain super long streaks. I'm doing good when I hit double digit on my streak. What I'll see is the AI goes god mode on me. It'll dodge everything, fight perfectly, and react far faster than any human could. Sometimes, even after breaking my streak, it'll stay god mode for a few rounds after before returning to the lower difficulty. Since I have a limited roster and limited time, this random god mode of the AI just flat out feels unfair.
  • 1Pharaoh wrote: »
    The increased in difficulty for arenas makes the grinding fun and your streak means something. It also makes great practice. Those guaranteed W's in mcoc was boring and made grinding more of a chore.

    I agree that getting harder as your streak gets longer helps you fight better. Ramping up to impossible to beat does not make you better. It just makes you mad.
    There is a difference between hard but fair and god mode. They need to keep the increasing difficulty in the hard but fair range.
  • 1Pharaoh1Pharaoh Posts: 36
    A hard but fair difficulty is very subjective.
  • DreadspectreDreadspectre Posts: 123
    edited April 2017
    All I know is:

    My Bumblebee: Evades like twice in a match at most
    AI Bumblebee: Evade, Evade, Evade, Evade, Evade, Evade

    Obnoxious haha.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    All I know is:

    My Bumblebee: Evades like twice in a match at most
    AI Bubmlebee: Evade, Evade, Evade, Evade, Evade, Evade

    Obnoxious haha.

    I know, any bot with an evade buff becomes basically untouchable while it's active. And apparently the computer is the only one that gets to make Mirage's Special 2 Unblockable.
  • KINGCHRIS97KINGCHRIS97 Posts: 22
    edited April 2017
    I have a streak of 136. At first the AI was hard for me, but as I play the game longer it become easy and make me a better player. I like AI in arena is harder than the AI in Mcoc Arena.

    I am very skilled, that's not the issue. The problem that a very skilled player like me is dying. I haven't lost streak yet but I need to focus way too hard to maintain streak which makes the experience slower and unenjoyable. I'm using several 2/20 teams as well. The matchups are fair but the AI is not. The hard matches (6-15) are sufficient challenge bro, no need for arena to be a completely difficult part of the game. If you want a challenge that bad then lose your streak and do it again but don't throw that on the player base most folks cannot survive these fights. I only do cause I'm a SAVAGE!!!

    Why would l lose my streak Lol. I enjoy the AI being hard, because it means something. If you are skill player like you say. You would not be complaining how hard the AI is. Lol
  • Ok sure bud
  • Proof

    jxr4570kyle3.png
  • Proof

    jxr4570kyle3.png

    Proof??? Explain
  • WolfeWolfe Posts: 80
    Hmm I'm confused on what this proof is for?
  • MootMoot Posts: 52
    nice. You can chain hits to 86 at streak 0, teach me how??

  • I'm just proving a point that in story mode I can wreck enemies flawlessly but in arena the AI is erratic ad overpowered at times... not all the time but tuning in general needs to be done. If I am losing fights then I know many including myself will be losing streak from time to time & of no fault of our own. I agree that having a harder enemy to fight and train with is a good thing fellas. I just disagree that those hard fights can be found in arena where you lose points and potentially a streak which I feel is unacceptable.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    that screenshot proves no point everyone that's played more than 5 minutes can walk through story mode I mean before the last few changes to beta and global we had 1200 pi bots in act 1 that we were beating with 2* bots.
  • I think that if arena stays like this, a lot of people will stop playing... I'm all for getting harder fights as you progress in your win streak. However, past a certain streak the AI gets impossible to beat. They evade absolutely everything and counter every move, faster than you can react, even if your team is max 2/30 and the other bots are 1-200 points lower. I feel that it is completely unfair how it purposely makes you lose... Make it harder as you progress with your streak, get matched with only Medium-Hard teams instead of easy ones, but don't make the AI godly and impossible to beat...
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    There are people with 50-100 streaks so obviously ai is not impossible to beat but yes it gets tougher and yes you have to change your strategy to continue fighting
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    I've also noticed that sometimes the ai randomly goes god mode and makes it just feel frustrating, not a challenge or skill test.
  • Hardest part for me when the PI rating get's really big between my bot and the enemy bot is getting them to use their Special bars before they get to S3.

    Sometimes you just can't bait out the S1 or S2 it seems like and with enough power rating difference those S3's will really hurt.
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