Enemy AI Discussion

Alright everyone, im gonna cut to the chase. Kabam has clearly given the AI we fight against an unfair advantage. This is very prevalent in higher difficulty activites.

Let's start with special attacks. I don't know if it's just me, but there have been multiple times where I've been "sucked" into a special attack. I'll be almost at the edge of the stage and get hit by a special that was launched 3 light years away from me. Also, I've been hit by specials that i dodged via dashing backwards.

Cornering and withholding specials is the cheapest thing the AI likes to do. It's happened to all of us. You hit the enemy and they have enough power for a special 2 attack. You try to bait it out, but they refuse to use it. Eventually, youll get pushed to the edge of the map and all you can do is block which isn't good cause you still take damage. I've been in fights where the AI would hold onto their Special attacks for a few MINUTES and prolonge the fight enough to get a special 3. This is BS cause if you get hit by an S3 on master or expert, YOU ARE DEAD.

One more thing I've noticed about the AI is the increased reaction time. They can dodge attacks at speeds that you as a player wouldn't be able to as a player. This is straight up cheating.

Finally, evade. In my opinion, evade has no business being in a game like this and it should be removed entirely from the game. The AI abuses it. You'll be 2 hits into a combo then bam! AI uses evade, counters, and you die. It's stupid. I'll go more into detail about certain abilities that should be tweaked in another post but basically, stuff like evade FORCES you to use certain bots because you HAVE to rather than using bots that you WANT to use. It's not fun.

And no I'm not bad at the game. I've taken out Alliance Mission primal at lvl 21 by myself numerous times. My highest combo is about 200 hits and highest arean streak is 30. (See screenshot for proof of highest chain)
icirtrese5bf.jpg
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Comments

  • KittenKitten Posts: 782
    shark AI is on steroids idk why
  • ÆnigmaÆnigma Posts: 295
    And no I'm not bad at the game. I've taken out Alliance Mission primal at lvl 21 by myself numerous times. My highest combo is about 200 hits and highest arean streak is 30. (See screenshot for proof of highest chain)
    icirtrese5bf.jpg

    wn3g1yxo1ztc.jpeg
  • ÆnigmaÆnigma Posts: 295
    In all seriousness though. I agree with you. AI pulls some sneaky bs.
  • Kitten wrote: »
    shark AI is on steroids idk why

    The more damage we take, the more we spend in repairs, which equals more money for Kabam
  • Slayer wrote: »
    Yup I agree with Evade Buff on AI , like on expert the AI are 4* and at r5 maxed and so as our bots same r5 bots but the evade or other buffs works preciously and accurately on the AI but your bots does not ! , This is literally cheating , given the same stats and all the AI should fight exactly like our bots do . The chances of triggering an ability should be same for the AI and our bots . The AI certainly activates buffs and debuffs accurately but our bots still dont .

    Exactly.
  • BlackRazakBlackRazak Posts: 1,804
    Kitten wrote: »
    shark AI is on steroids idk why

    The more damage we take, the more we spend in repairs, which equals more money for Kabam

    Wait till they blame it on "various factors" like processor lag, GPU, OS, network variables, etc.
    Sheesh.
  • BlackRazakBlackRazak Posts: 1,804
    BlackRazak wrote: »
    Kitten wrote: »
    shark AI is on steroids idk why

    The more damage we take, the more we spend in repairs, which equals more money for Kabam

    Wait till they blame it on "various factors" like processor lag, GPU, OS, network variables, etc.
    Sheesh.

    Then you remember the Sega Dreamcast, on dial up, had NO SUCH ISSUES with online play. In the 90s.
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 590
    edited October 2018

    Cornering and withholding specials is the cheapest thing the AI likes to do. It's happened to all of us. You hit the enemy and they have enough power for a special 2 attack. You try to bait it out, but they refuse to use it. Eventually, youll get pushed to the edge of the map and all you can do is block which isn't good cause you still take damage. I've been in fights where the AI would hold onto their Special attacks for a few MINUTES and prolonge the fight enough to get a special 3. This is BS cause if you get hit by an S3 on master or expert, YOU ARE DEAD.

    I agree with this one the most. I agree the game is supposed very difficult at certain levels but it is just outright cheap when you dance for minutes and they don't use the special. That changes it from a game of skill to a game of luck.
  • MutantdocMutantdoc Posts: 277
    Yeah the dice is stacked against the player for sure. You could use Jazz SP1 to force him to use his special but Jazz is not ideal for a lot of fights. I play AM at level 42 and the AI just dodges everything you throw at it.
  • Aggressive Playstyle works best, for me.
  • Mutantdoc wrote: »
    Yeah the dice is stacked against the player for sure. You could use Jazz SP1 to force him to use his special but Jazz is not ideal for a lot of fights. I play AM at level 42 and the AI just dodges everything you throw at it.

    Jazz is really "squishy" like you said. He deals good damage but cant take a hit. Also, his confusion debuff doesn't work all the time. It's why i use prowl most of the time.
  • I also want to mention 'special target lock' like sp1 from Ratchet or sp1 from Movie Megatron. I can't dash back because AI lock target. I can only block. It is very obvious when I fight with far inferior bot, like my 3 star against rank 2 5 star duped. You know how many damage they do even you block.
  • I agree with many points post here. But sometimes game lag or low spec could cause problems. And sometimes it has solution to counter with, like playing aggresive to activate enemy to use special in which force you to dodge or dash back.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,347
    The sharks have a shorter cool down between dodging and dashing and attacking - they play really quick if you use them too.

    As for everything else - the AI need an edge to make the game difficult. They don't "react" because there isn't any thinking time unless it is coded in. Everyone else manges, deal with it...
  • Some of the older bots AI needs an upgrade to make them challenging I’d say. Look st Rotf Megatron. Easiest bot in the game to beat because his pattern is so predictable. Compared to dinobot who plays carefully until he lures you into getting an armour break or taking damage hitting his block, it’s clear who needs an upgrade there.

    While we’re on the subject, maybe a rework of how soundwave’s sig is used by the AI is also worth looking at. It’s daft how he happily holds his block against a ranged heavy because the AI knows it’s going to reflect back, I’ve checked that one many times. Ok, the computer is the one that decides whether it’s going to be reflected but giving itself the advantage by taking the hits it knows it’s going to reflect and dodging the ones it’s decided won’t reflect is cheap. It should be a failsafe for the AI as it is for a player, not a strategy that the AI alone with its algorithm’s can rely on.
    Swipeprime wrote: »
    I also want to mention 'special target lock' like sp1 from Ratchet or sp1 from Movie Megatron. I can't dash back because AI lock target. I can only block. It is very obvious when I fight with far inferior bot, like my 3 star against rank 2 5 star duped. You know how many damage they do even you block.

    Only way round that is to learn the timing of each hit and exactly when to dash back/sidestep. EVERY attack in the game is dodgable if you get the timing right, including prowl and bludgeons sp2’s. Megs’s special will become easy to dodge for you when you get the timing right. Backstep just as the hit is about to land and even with your back against the wall you’ll still dodge. Same goes with ratchet, and any other melee special.

    Even megatronus’s unblockable sp2 is easily avoided. Sidestep just as he’s about to appear in front of you and you get the dodge. Just practise, learn and bait the crap out of them. Eventually blocking will be a thing of the past, or a last resort. Enough practise and you’ll get it right.

    Go up against rok mixmaster and practise against his sp2, sidestepping the mine just as it goes off. You master that one, the rest become easy, maybe with the exception of prowl sp2, or shockwave sp2, which require perfection to completely avoid damage.
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 1,887
    Shockwave's sp2 doesn't need perfection. You just start dodging down earlier and do it twice, he won't hit you.
  • DaveJL wrote: »
    The sharks have a shorter cool down between dodging and dashing and attacking - they play really quick if you use them too.

    As for everything else - the AI need an edge to make the game difficult. They don't "react" because there isn't any thinking time unless it is coded in. Everyone else manges, deal with it...

    You know damn well what i meant by "react" so dont try to be a smartass. The AI don't need an extra push to make the game difficult. Them being jacked up on mods and being put on sig level 100 is enough. Kabam not explicitly stating that the AI has these enhancements is a problem. It's deceitful and I'm able to hold my own against the AI. Go look at the screenshot above for proof of that. But just because i can handle cheating AI (for the most part) doesn't mean it's ok for the AI to cheat.
  • KennyKenny Posts: 301
    I haven’t noticed any of this “cheating” stuff from the AI that so many people talk about. The only thing that I’ve had happen is the AI holding on to specials, but 95% of the time it’s not a big issue.

    From my experience the AI has not done anything that I myself am not able to do. I’ll admit that I don’t grind the hell out of this game, skipping every arena and only doing raids when I want something in the store, also skipping easy and medium on spotlight. So I don’t play nearly as much as other players.

    However I don’t really believe that different game modes, or lower level missions will change the fact that I never see any of this.

    Also, the reason you see it more on higher difficulties is simply because they last longer. On master mode a fight might last a minute, but on hard mode they barely last 15 seconds. More play time equates to more bugs showing themselves.
  • @Mr_Wonderful This is why a "training" mode is soo necessary for the game. Most if not all fighting games have one. You pick your bot, pick whatever bot you want to fight against, chose settings (infinite health, no Special 3, mods, etc..) This would allow people to practice. Fighting RoK crapmaster does not suffice. Depending on where you're at in the game, one screw up against RoK Mixmaster and you're toast. Then you have to quit and restart if you want to use that bot again and it costs energy.
  • Mr_WonderfulMr_Wonderful Posts: 473
    edited October 2018
    @Mr_Wonderful This is why a "training" mode is soo necessary for the game. Most if not all fighting games have one. You pick your bot, pick whatever bot you want to fight against, chose settings (infinite health, no Special 3, mods, etc..) This would allow people to practice. Fighting RoK crapmaster does not suffice. Depending on where you're at in the game, one screw up against RoK Mixmaster and you're toast. Then you have to quit and restart if you want to use that bot again and it costs energy.

    Couldn’t agree more about training mode, would be great to have access to laying into a punchbag like grindor at a pi of the players choosing would be more ideal, someone who isn’t as punishing for mistakes. Although mix isn’t the best example, yeah he’ll roast you if you mess up, his sp2 is still one of the trickier ones to dodge if someone hasn’t got it down to a tee. Considering the energy cost he’s the most accessible consistent option without taking 2* bots into master to achieve a similar level of disadvantage, and even then there’s not a guarantee the first bot that comes up isn’t someone like g1 prime or grindor, whose specials are easy to dodge.

    My point was that the pressure of having to fully dodge the attack to avoid insta-death would provide the place to learn how to dodge the harder to evade specials, if he masters the timing on mix he’s got a good footing for getting the timing right on the rest of them. We all have to learn it somewhere, and for energy cost, accessibility and challenge of getting the perfect dodge right, mix is the best option.
    Shockwave's sp2 doesn't need perfection. You just start dodging down earlier and do it twice, he won't hit you.

    I usually swipe up, sometimes the sidestep gets the dodge, sometimes it doesn’t. I just put it down to bad luck if I got hit. Will try swiping down to see if it gives me better luck.

    Edit forgot to reply to @KillMasterC
  • VoltronVoltron Posts: 505
    I usually swipe up, sometimes the sidestep gets the dodge, sometimes it doesn’t. I just put it down to bad luck if I got hit. Will try swiping down to see if it gives me better luck.

    swiping up...I tend to find myself swiping early. when swiping down...I can use the beam as the cue to move. it wont make sense because you can see the beam go though you but you're dodging it.
  • Voltron wrote: »
    I usually swipe up, sometimes the sidestep gets the dodge, sometimes it doesn’t. I just put it down to bad luck if I got hit. Will try swiping down to see if it gives me better luck.

    swiping up...I tend to find myself swiping early. when swiping down...I can use the beam as the cue to move. it wont make sense because you can see the beam go though you but you're dodging it.

    That's a little animation error... But if we look logically IN real world, it makes sense.
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