Passive damage is the worst mechanics in game. Prove me wrong

Here are my arguments in favor of passive damage being really bad and no fun (concerning both bleeding and these new effects in Thundercracker's special mission).

1. Passive damage is outrageously high. Without passive damage, you generally can defeat a bot more than twice your strength if you act wise. Facing passive damage, you will struggle vs an opponent that is equal to you, or a bit stronger. Having my top bots at 2500+, I win battles vs 5000+ (even 6500, sometimes), but I stand no chance vs a 3600 bot in case he is supported by somewhat upgraded bleeding. You may have a 35 attack count, playing perfectly without any interruption, and the passive damage may still kill you faster.

2. Passive damage feels just totally unfair as a battle term. It rewards one fighter and punishes the other one for the very same thing: biding time. It just tells you: in this battle you're worse than your opponent, there's no way you can be better. If you're very good, you may be not much worse, still you will be inferior and Soundwave superior.

3. There's absolutely no gameplay in passive damage. You can't play with it. You can't evade or block it. You can't trade health/charge. You can't do anything: you just die slowly, regardless of what you do. The only thing you can do is hurry, fighting not the opponent, but the time itself.
Most of the other mods leave you a chance to build a winning strategy (and only punish you harder if you err). Empowered ranged attacks? Keep close. Stunning beam? Stay away or break the shield first. Instakill at 12.5%? Well, stay away and use block more often. Free power charge? Ehm... almost as bad as free damage, but not quite so. Any kind of 'free resource over time' is bad, to say true, since they all possess the same fundamental flaw: lack of additional gameplay.

5. Passive damage is the most acknowledged defensive strategy in the game: you set three strongest bots on central nodes and you support them with all three available bleeding mods (if you're lucky enough to get them, or at least two if you're not). You hardly see any other setup same often. People choose the strongest strategy, you can't ignore it.

Now tell me why I am wrong, please.

Comments

  • Bi1b0BagginsBi1b0Baggins Posts: 785
    BW team, duped Grimace, MV1, Thundercracka, Tatrum.
  • BlackRazakBlackRazak Posts: 2,486
    edited April 10
    What @Bi1b0Baggins said, or if unavailable, just go for MAXIMUM DAMAGE peddlers.
    Bots with decent armor and fast, strong attacks.
    Bonecrusher, Motormaster, Grimlock, Cyclonus, Drift, MV Prime, Cheetor, Megatronus of a high calibre.
  • Gunz0Gunz0 Posts: 2,691
    You are wrong

    First post best post
    [/thread]
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    If you're talking raids, my Grimlock loves Harm Accelerators. He likes to eat them with some Energon cookies sprinkled on top. If you're talking about Life Transfer from the Thundercracker event, yeah that one's frustrating but bots like MV1 (SP1 hits harder w/ less health) or a duped Motormaster can level things a bit, or just go aggro and try out-healing the damage. You won't, but you can just about break even.
    And Megatronus on any Power Gain mod is what happens when a dev gets into a messy divorce and takes it out on the players.
  • BeastdadBeastdad Posts: 925
    CandKane wrote: »
    And Megatronus on any Power Gain mod is what happens when a dev gets into a messy divorce and takes it out on the players.

    this was very funny
  • that1guythat1guy Posts: 374
    I feel like this thread stemmed from the frustration of dealing with Round 4 of the Challenge. You have to understand that mod is bugged, and not working as intended based on the description and how it worked in ROTK.

    With regards to raid mods or abilities that have damage over time, as others have already addressed it there are plenty of options to deal with those mods. Unfortunately you gotta have RNG on your side to get those bots or dupped to unlock abilities to unlock certain counter measures to deal with DoT.

    Moreover, the damage from DoT is not outrageous, that's quite the hyperbole. If you allow the DoT to stack to reach unsustainable levels, that's on you as the player. Yes, DoT abilities shine when used defensively on your base, but again, it's on you as the player to be skilled enough to utilize it offensively. WB, BC, shw, kB, and many others are excellent options and can really shine offensively in the hands of a competent player.

    Lastly, this game is designed to be stacked against the player if they wish to reach higher rewards. It's a fact that many get frustrated with, but once you're able to 'get gud', complaints about DoT seem negligible compared to other glaring gameplay issues.
  • RainfollowerRainfollower Posts: 8
    edited April 10
    that1guy wrote: »
    I feel like this thread stemmed from the frustration of dealing with Round 4 of the Challenge.
    Not exactly. I've had it on my mind for a long time already. Since... December, I think? It's just that I found the forums only now. Harm Ehancers and Bonecrusher have been a pain since then.
    that1guy wrote: »
    With regards to raid mods or abilities that have damage over time, as others have already addressed it there are plenty of options to deal with those mods. Unfortunately you gotta have RNG on your side to get those bots or dupped to unlock abilities to unlock certain counter measures to deal with DoT.
    I didnt't say there were no way to deal with them, right? There're ways. Like Primal's healing on clearing a bleeding mod. Sure, there're ways (which may work in case you foresee the exact setup on enemy base).

    What I am trying to point at is that in comparison to "free damage/resource over timeno other mod makes such an impact. Harm Enhancers, healing station, Power Gain. I also said this once: an unexpected Harm Enhancer makes a bot you could easily beat into a real challenge. Unlike most of the other mods. That's what matters.
    CandKane wrote: »
    And Megatronus on any Power Gain mod is what happens when a dev gets into a messy divorce and takes it out on the players.

    Actually, yes. That is a very good example, even though it's a passive gain of Power, not Damage.

    Also, I am not talking of the bots' abilities that do DoT. Burning, Shock, Bleeding on bots are mostly okay. Except maybe Bonecrusher who can add stacks to you when you attack him. Like, the more you hit, the faster you die (just now I lost a battle having a perfect score of 20+ hits, none received, killed purely by 3 stacks of bleeding; partially my bad, I had to shoot instead). But that is only one case and not a general rule.
    that1guy wrote: »
    If you allow the DoT to stack to reach unsustainable levels, that's on you as the player.
    You need not let them stack. If an enemy bot is at least 50% stronger than you, Harm Enhancer will burn you quite fast on a single stack. If the enemy bot is twice as strong... well, usually that means "goodbye".
    that1guy wrote: »
    Lastly, this game is designed to be stacked against the player if they wish to reach higher rewards.
    Oh come one! I've got nothing against the game in general. I play all modes and I fight all kinds of bots. And it all makes fun -- except those spikes of nastiness made of passive damage

    Now. The rest. "gitgud" or "you wrong" is funny, yes. Sounds just like the proof, sure! :D As for "the right bots", it kinda works, I know, still the power spike of a good Harm Enhancer is noticeably high. And. what are the numbers in question? Like in this:
    CandKane wrote: »
    If you're talking raids, my Grimlock loves Harm Accelerators. He likes to eat them with some Energon cookies sprinkled on top.

    What rating difference and what HP loss are we talking? How much is enemy stronger, are you both duped, how much HP do you lose in such an encounter? Without this you can't really compare anything.

    PS: sorry if I miss commas or build sentences badly, english is not my native.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718

    What rating difference and what HP loss are we talking? How much is enemy stronger, are you both duped, how much HP do you lose in such an encounter? Without this you can't really compare anything.

    My Grimlock, who is duped, is sitting at 3727, although he gets a bit higher when I run him in Raids due to synergies. I can routinely take on 4500-5000 PI bots in Raids, and higher in Spotlights. Now, with those 5000 PI bots on Harm Accelerators I usually take about 2-3% Bleed damage before it gets purified. Even when the HA is duped, it rarely adds more than a single percent before everything purifies. Once that happens, all I have to do is not eat a special. Post 8.0, I haven't been paying attention, but I think it would be closer to 1-2% now
  • Use Motormaster, his signature gives him more damage the lower his health gets, thus giving him more health back
  • CandKane wrote: »

    What rating difference and what HP loss are we talking? How much is enemy stronger, are you both duped, how much HP do you lose in such an encounter? Without this you can't really compare anything.

    My Grimlock, who is duped, is sitting at 3727, although he gets a bit higher when I run him in Raids due to synergies. I can routinely take on 4500-5000 PI bots in Raids, and higher in Spotlights. Now, with those 5000 PI bots on Harm Accelerators I usually take about 2-3% Bleed damage before it gets purified. Even when the HA is duped, it rarely adds more than a single percent before everything purifies. Once that happens, all I have to do is not eat a special. Post 8.0, I haven't been paying attention, but I think it would be closer to 1-2% now

    Well, having a topped duped Grimlock surely can help vs bleeding. Nice to know. Maybe one day I will get a 4* Grimlock again. Or maybe Optimus Primal. Still this does not contradict anything that I said. This is just a way to walk around the spot mentioned.

    As I see, it is easier to discuss "I can you can't" than actual mechanics in general.
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    CandKane wrote: »

    What rating difference and what HP loss are we talking? How much is enemy stronger, are you both duped, how much HP do you lose in such an encounter? Without this you can't really compare anything.

    My Grimlock, who is duped, is sitting at 3727, although he gets a bit higher when I run him in Raids due to synergies. I can routinely take on 4500-5000 PI bots in Raids, and higher in Spotlights. Now, with those 5000 PI bots on Harm Accelerators I usually take about 2-3% Bleed damage before it gets purified. Even when the HA is duped, it rarely adds more than a single percent before everything purifies. Once that happens, all I have to do is not eat a special. Post 8.0, I haven't been paying attention, but I think it would be closer to 1-2% now

    Well, having a topped duped Grimlock surely can help vs bleeding. Nice to know. Maybe one day I will get a 4* Grimlock again. Or maybe Optimus Primal. Still this does not contradict anything that I said. This is just a way to walk around the spot mentioned.

    As I see, it is easier to discuss "I can you can't" than actual mechanics in general.

    I never said "I can, you can't", I'm sorry you took it that way. I'm simply trying to help. The mechanic may have been cheap back when the game started and only two bots could reliably counter it, but now there are all sorts of workarounds for nearly every mod in the game. I use my Grimlock because he shuts down DOT completely, allowing me to focus on other areas of the match besides whether or not I'll bleed/burn/whatever to death. Even the life transfer mod can be outwitted if you abuse Ratchet, G1 Prime, and masteries.
    Please don't misunderstand, those mods can be back-breaking without the proper setup, and I'm not going to sit here and say "git gud" because Harm Accelerators wrecked me for months post-launch until I managed to get the bots I needed. The mechanics are sound, the game is simply programmed to kill you at high levels just like old arcade cabinets.
  • CandKane wrote: »
    I never said "I can, you can't", I'm sorry you took it that way. I'm simply trying to help.

    Oh I mean no offense, and I appreciate your wish to help me "win a battle". It's just that my intention was not to win a battle or get the right bot, but to discuss the passive damage from "outside the box", as game mechanics in general. That's how I laid it in the starting post: arguments for passive damage as a feature being worse than any other mechanics in whole game, or maybe not. While building workarounds round the "back-breaking" (it's your wording) circumstances is a thing "inside the box", and this is a totally different thing. That's why I act touchy. Sorry if that hurt you.
  • JKINJKIN Posts: 514
    Passive damage is WAY overrated. It really only bothers you when you go against Shockwave or some warrior.
  • Bntyhntr3232_Bntyhntr3232_ Posts: 2,921
    @Rainfollower passive damage isn't so bad when you're using it now is it?
Sign In or Register to comment.