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A suggestion for Rhinox
Manthro
Posts: 2,752
Rhinox is a bit of a tragedy at the upper echelon of AM difficulty.
The nature of his skillset requires frequent heavy attacks, but as everyone knows, the window to dodge is miniscule, making him quite the liability no matter how good you are.
I propose a very simple adjustment to his skillset in order to make him more viable:
Trade his melee damage buff on bleeding enemies for one of two things:
1) chance to stun on basic melee per bleed debuff
OR
2) chance to trigger unstoppable on basic melee per bleed debuff.
This would allow for the playstyle required to use him effectively, which is ending most combos with a heavy attack.
As it stands, players are generally forced to use partial combos and break off, for fear of getting violated by turbo charged ranged attacks, or the AI's near precognitive anticipation of a backstep or heavy following a combo.
Care would need to be taken on how the stun works, so as not to bring a game breaking stun lock loop into play, which would go all too well with his power lock/burn.
The unstoppable idea feels like it offers a way out of getting caught by a complete counter combo KO, while being balanced in that you may still take a bit of damage from a poor heavy attack launch.
Both have merit
Thoughts?
The nature of his skillset requires frequent heavy attacks, but as everyone knows, the window to dodge is miniscule, making him quite the liability no matter how good you are.
I propose a very simple adjustment to his skillset in order to make him more viable:
Trade his melee damage buff on bleeding enemies for one of two things:
1) chance to stun on basic melee per bleed debuff
OR
2) chance to trigger unstoppable on basic melee per bleed debuff.
This would allow for the playstyle required to use him effectively, which is ending most combos with a heavy attack.
As it stands, players are generally forced to use partial combos and break off, for fear of getting violated by turbo charged ranged attacks, or the AI's near precognitive anticipation of a backstep or heavy following a combo.
Care would need to be taken on how the stun works, so as not to bring a game breaking stun lock loop into play, which would go all too well with his power lock/burn.
The unstoppable idea feels like it offers a way out of getting caught by a complete counter combo KO, while being balanced in that you may still take a bit of damage from a poor heavy attack launch.
Both have merit
Thoughts?
10
Comments
1. Shield is almost completely useless. It’s based on opponent attack rating. 20k attack rating bot means u take 20*0.8=16k damage (lower with armor?)
2. You can use heavy but have to be exteamly careful whereas with rollout or ranged heavy bots u can “almost always” get away safely
3. His bleed is a meh. Shockwave deals 3 shocks with 1 power bar. He does how many? Where is his energy damage? Against physical resistance can go cry (jetfire for example)
There is only very few selected ok match up for him in AM, where he can perform ok.
Damage? Barely any
Shield? Useless
Hp and armor? Mediocre
Utility? Somewhat with power lock
Synergy? Meh
Better alternative? Mirage, shockwave, wj, jetfire, and maybe more...
Feels like power lock is only reason to use him ever, so good suggestion to try to make his power lock more approachable. Still, his shielding and damage is too meh to be worthy.
There really isn’t any robo tronus or robo anything currently in AM to require a power lock bot.
I disagree here. Once awakened, he caps damage at 60%
That's pretty significant.
Yes. They exist at max AM difficulty
This thread is to discuss how to make rhinox better. Most of forum user already knew you did not like rhinox.
His ability, skillset and buffs/shields/bleeds/lock make him a jack of all trades... But his hit accuracy IS abysmal.
With this guy, a missed heavy sometimes sets the tone for the entire match.
No bot matches his inconsistency (OK, maybe KB SP1 or Galvatron Dark Burn) so bringing him to difficult AM or 70K raids is a gamble.
Which makes him fun. But infuriating in equal measure.
Would love it if his heavy was slightly improved!
We all agree that his heavy has a problem - the jump back needs to be further or faster so he has a chance to dodge retaliation; maybe make it impossible to dodge the heavy by going backwards, only by sidestepping?
Also it would be nice to get the melee bonus per stack of bleed instead of just when opponent is bleeding .....
Also , once awakened, scale his shield protection with rank eg 60%/50%/40%/30%/20%
Is any of that sensible or would it be too powerful and unbalancing ?
Btw, nobody will invest in his signature, cuz if you get hit u dead in AM, would u care about that 1% maybe 2% shock damage
(Kinda like how shockwave signature is useless. It simply is too risky to use undo. )
Heavy changes: 20% faster and gains a defense buff for 3 seconds (so if he DOES get hit it isn't too major)
His shielding has a 5% chance to not disappear when struck
SP1: if he doesn't inflict bleed he will get the unstoppable buff for 6 seconds But if he does inflict bleed he gets Crit rate up for 6 seconds
SP2: The blast at the end has a 50% chance to inflict shock for 4 seconds (if it already inflicts shock then increase the chance to do so by 5%)
Rhinox gets Primals armor buff for 3 seconds for every bleed inflicted (up to 12 seconds)
SP3: If Rhinox has backfire instead of him taking damage the opponent takes the damage. He has a lower chance to inflict bleed but a chance to inflict armor break for 12 seconds
Rhinox has 60%+ defense (to make him a Extremely reliable bot)
I find Rhinox outdated and not very useful so I decided to state how I would buff him enough so that even I would use him
Hmmmmm... I don't know what to think of this. 60% is a lot of armor. Plus the shields... You'd barely be able to do any damage.
This is way too extreme.
When you think about buffing a bot, you need to take into consideration what it will be like to fight against him, not just the benefits of these buffs when using him.
Lastly, Rhinox isn't even close to outdated. He just needs a tweak. His skillset is very effective overall, he is like a Swiss Army knife. Does a little bit of everything, especially when you take his synergies into account.
You're probably right...maybe the 60%+ defense should be lowered to 20%+ and the 5% chance for the shielding to not go away should be lowered to 1%
This is it in a nutshell. Rhinox really only needs a small adjustment to alleviate his abysmal hit percentage with his heavy attack.
Plus... if a bot can be fixed with a very minor tweak, requiring much less programming man-hours to implement.... I imagine it's much more likely that Kabam would actually make the change.
Why the hate for his shields as well? It’s a great safeguard. Would you rather he didn’t have them?
He can dish out bleeds on normal ranged. Yes they aren’t arcee level of bleeds but still for so much utility you’ve got to offer balance. At least he’s got it. His sp2 needs no changing either. Again, multiple bleeds from an easy source.
Rhinox is meant to be a defensive tank. That’s what he’s for. Difficult to fight against. You have your back to the wall, your taking damage from that sp2. Bring a melee buff based bot and he’ll punish you for it.
Like all BW bots he’s more difficult than other genre’s to fight perfectly against, in comparison. All BW bots have a niche that make them difficult. Why should he be any different? He’s perfectly fine as he is. Nothing needs to change with him.
Otherwise, I think everything else is fine.
SHIELD SHUNT - Rhinox re-directs all the remaining power from his Shields to his chain guns. Rhinox gains X% Ranged Damage and X% chance to Bleed for every active Shield re-directed to his guns for X seconds. Shields return in 15 seconds. (Hold down block for 1 second to redistribute any shields currently active to Rhinox's chain guns).
I like this idea. Also covers the potential loss of the melee damage buff if kabam ever decides to take one of my ideas in revamping his heavy mechanic into play.
If you really want to do something different with the shields maybe give him a chance to shock with his heavy at the expense of one shield but as I said, a tweak to the mechanics of his heavy aside, I am okay with his kit as is.
Yeah, that would help.
I think his sig is key. Maybe being able to restore or add shield buffs when landing a melee hit on a Power Locked enemy? Or if not restoring shields, maybe draining energy from shocked or power locked bots when landing a melee or heavy attack?
I really like your suggestions to make his heavy more accessible. However, I'm not a fan of taking away the Melee Damage. Sure, it's not the most known part of his kit, but it's the only way he can chuck out some good damage.
So, I kind of took your Unstoppable idea and twisted it around a bit.
Perhaps give him a chance to go Unstoppable on his Heavy based on the amount of Shields that he has.
Like this:
6 Shields- 100%
5 Shields- 83%
4 Shields- 66%
3 Shields- 49%
2 Shields-32%
1 Shield-15%
It's a way to preserve yourself from getting countered but the use would be limited if you can't keep his Shields up. Perhaps the only problem this presents is that it makes Rhinox too reliant on his Shields. Thoughts?
I like this idea. Rewards perfect play, forces you to gamble if you get hit.
It also ensures that you can't intentionally spam heavy attacks just to trigger unstoppable with the goal of eating one counterpunch in order to chain unlimited heavy/unstoppable combos together, which would be game breaking.
Btw, that hit can be regular hit, critical, heavy, special, range(range shock?). U don’t want to get hit ever.
Imagine getting hit along with a debuff effects like shock bleed acid....along with double debuff duration mod
Or just imagine u get hit by tronus special 1/2 with offense relic or galvatron special 1 under unstoppable. And good luck getting hit by g1 bee, and bludgeon or mv sp1
U will still wish u never picked rhinox
That's why Rhinox's Shields are.. well, Shields. They cap the damage at 60%, preventing devastating damage.
Galvatron SP1/2 and Tronus SP1 are no problem, coming from someone that actually plays him in AM. Tronus's SP2 is a pain for everyone though... especially with Preservation.
And those same Shields are meant to decrease Burn and Shock damage and that's when you don't consider him being on a Beast Purifier team.
60% reduces that to 24k and 48k. (Before armor damage deduction) Ur rank 5 rhinox with unstoppable will be almost dead with just one punch
Not every single player plays at max level AM for God's sake. You have to realize that this game is not tailor-made to the players who play end-game stuff. And also, it's 60% percent of their attack. That would mean if Blud's attack is 20k, the max damage he can do with one of his crits on the shield would be limited 12k. Still a lot, but that halves and quarters your earlier statistics.