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Bots In Need Of Buffs

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  • To mention bots not already discussed...

    Grimlock: Worst brawler when unduped. Relies heavily on his signature and in essence on being dealt damage. He has the highest hit pont score in the game. However, he is less durable than Grindor. I imagine devs thought that crit rate reduction would make him less likely to suffer DoT but at least he could have armour or more hit points. Being immune while in dino form is great, but also a need since his buffs need to be constantly renewed, unlike those of, say, Tantrum.

    Also, now lots of bots have DoT purification, making it less of an edge. Yeah, he gets stronger but Tantrum has an attack score that makes it irrelevant. And better not mention that synergy which makes any Beast Wars bot purify DoT at will making a heavy (and gain attack for a short time by the way). That was the best feature of Grimlock and they gave it as a synergy... any Beast Wars character can have it by joining Primal and other beast pal and it is not like they have few defenses (crit armour, heal on regular hits, power drain immunity...).

    I would just give him more hit points (now he seems to be able to take a hit or two more than other brawlers without taking armour into account...). Also he should be able to mantain his buffs longer without having to revert to dino form. I don't play high level AM but I remember some pros told at these levels making a heavy was like russian roulette. Also reducing purfied damage to a mere scratch. Those would be minor changes which would improve Grim a lot.

    Optimus Prime generations: I know many are going to think he does not need any buff etc. Of course he is not that bad, but he has not aged well. His armour only lasts about 2.5 seconds. This makes him eat any sp3 at full damage while other bots which are far weaker in the lore like Grindor and Bludgeon can at least reduce the first hit or two. Also, the DoT brawler trend has made him weaker against the class he has class advantage.
    Not only that, but there are bots with outright anti Prime powers, like resisting heavies from land vehicles or increased unstoppable as you have less life (at least this one was more balanced). What does OP have to gain an edge vs those bots (some of them brawlers like Thundercracker)? Nothing at all.
    OP can do permanent armour break, but on sp3. Megatron does it at sp1!
    His synergies are good but force you to use a given team. And by the way, Megatron's synergies are not weaker. That with Starscream almost guarantees he will fuse the debuff on you. That is more game changing that some healing.
    Optimus is just not on par with Primal, Generations Megatron, Galvatron or Megatronus. And he should.

    There are many powerful OP out there because many love the character. I do, but if I wanted a really powerful team, I would go for Beast Team or a Decepticon team.

    In order to improve him I would make his armour last longer or be able to activate it passively. Not a complicated thing, but Optimus would become far more durable than other bots, as it seems it was intended originally.

    So should GS prime armor buffs have the same amount of duration time as mv1? I say he should.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited September 2019
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    I sincerely disagree with UM needing a buff.

    He is strong, he's just not straightforward. Anyone fighting top level AM will tell you he is a huge PITA, requiring some of the longest fights to take down in the game.

    Remember, when you are thinking about buffing bots, you also need to think about what it's going to be like to fight them.

    I can assure you, there is not a single player in the top 3 alliances that wants to see UM get buffed to be any stronger than he already is.

    You don't understand what he is like at d140 with that ridiculous mod on him, which basically deletes all his best hard counters in the game 🤣

    Mods shouldn’t be getting taken into account here. Any mod of sufficient ridiculousness can make any bot good. Hound has become a genuine threat a few times because of some mods. But if you’re going against or even using just a high level UM, he can take it, but he can’t dish it out. And it makes for a lame bot to use. Similar to Grindor. Grindor can take a lot of punishment from pretty much every character in the game, even a lot of Tacticians, but his damage output is for the most part pretty bad.

    Grindor isn't great, but the one thing he does do is dish out massive damage. If you think he doesn't, you don't know how to play into his skillset.

    He hits extremely hard when you know what you're doing.

    He hits hard if your opponent is either at max power or close, and you use his special 2, and he’s at a high level, and his signature is also at a high level. Sure when that special 2 lands under all those circumstances, it LANDS, but that’s the only attacks he has that does any worthwhile damage. It’s similar to Motormasters problem, where their special 2 is really the only special worth using. Motormasters special 1 is just atrocious and his special 3 has good damage and debuffs, but it takes away a sizable chunk of your health and is risky to use. Grindors special 1 has a crit chance debuff, but it’s pretty unnecessary considering all the opponent has to do is breath around you and they’ll get one on them, and his special 2 deals so much more damage than his special 3, you have no reason to use it.

    A little known ability of Grindor is his capacity to deal damage through blocking opponents.

    This is where his S1 is very useful, particularly against bots with increased block proficiency, as well as Scorponok.

    The more Crit debuffs that are on your opponent, the more damage goes through block. With regards to Scorponok, he can't heal against block damage, so you can effectively melee him to death in a short time.

    This is why one of the Grindor buffs I suggested months ago would be to have him deal a permanent Crit debuff on S3. I would also grant him a normal power rate gain on any hits he lands on blocking opponents while a Crit debuff is active.

    You could stack it with a follow-up S1, and just start chopping away at blocking opponents. You would deal damage while minimalizing their power gains from hits, and charging up your own, outpacing your opponent.

    This would also have the added benefit of a pseudo-immunity to Bonecrusher's bleed ability, since it doesn't trigger on blocked attacks 😉 (which you can actually utilize in Grindors currently skillset, just not as effectively as with the buffs I propose)
  • @Maximus_Prime the key to a good g1 prime against brawlers is to not have him duped. Sounds ridiculous, but no bleeds means no benefit for grim, primal, TC etc.

    Yes TC is a counter to his roll out, but that’s only if you hit him with it. Same style as using ratchet heavy just to heal.

    And with respect to synergies, prime and megatron are 2 totally different play styles in totally different teams (ideally). Variation is good. I’d rather it be like that than generic synergies galore just because they’re the leaders of their factions.
  • @Maximus_Prime i'm a little confused as to how OGP needs a buff? have you ever dropped an sp3 and watched the disgusting amount of bleed damage that bot proceeds to take afterwards. OGP has amazing damage output, he's got good HP, his specials are all amazing, and paired with Rat he's a healing machine. There's a reason he was voted third best bot in the game last month behind OGMT and Tronus, it's because he's amazing.
  • DrShotgunDrShotgun Posts: 2,121
    I'd love to see Rachet gain a tad more utility. He is extremely pillow foster and has no way to negate damage. He used to be THE powerful healer, but with new healers on the field he has become obsolete. If he simply had a shield like Mirage or Rhinox it would make a huge difference. Tbh the only use he has these days is his Prime synergy.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited September 2019
    Canuck33 wrote: »
    @Maximus_Prime i'm a little confused as to how OGP needs a buff? have you ever dropped an sp3 and watched the disgusting amount of bleed damage that bot proceeds to take afterwards. OGP has amazing damage output, he's got good HP, his specials are all amazing, and paired with Rat he's a healing machine. There's a reason he was voted third best bot in the game last month behind OGMT and Tronus, it's because he's amazing.

    Obsolete Prime has his uses, but against high level content and the mod lanes you have to face in AM, he is very limited.

    Sure, in arenas and most spotlight lanes he is fine, and he can deal some massive damage when there is nothing opposing his skillset, but there are far better tacticians which counter the current meta in far more scenarios.

    Take OGP in against a 100% resist mod and watch what happens. He just doesn't have the kind of utility you expect from a tactician bot. His synergies keep him just barely relevant.

    Should he be top of the list for a buff? Hell no... But he will definitely require one eventually. Nemesis Prime handles what OGP cannot, so in a way he got a buff with the release of NP.
  • I get your point regarding the current scenarios of high level content and agree the OGMT style is more suitable for the future as bots will just continue to grow with their abilities and buffs. But to say OGP is obsolete is far from the truth, the guy still puts out mega damage and will be relevant for likely the lifespan of the game. there's 30 other bots that can't hold their own like OGP can.

    Saying that, he is the leader of the Autobots so he should be top tier, and I can see new bots with new abilities continuing to make him less effective. So not saying he should never be buffed, just saying he is certainly relevant. I'm all for him being a go to bot forever tho. Long live the leader of the Autobots!
  • Mr_WonderfulMr_Wonderful Posts: 754
    edited September 2019
    DrShotgun wrote: »
    I'd love to see Rachet gain a tad more utility. He is extremely pillow foster and has no way to negate damage. He used to be THE powerful healer, but with new healers on the field he has become obsolete. If he simply had a shield like Mirage or Rhinox it would make a huge difference. Tbh the only use he has these days is his Prime synergy.

    I agree ratchet could do with a touch more, but I wouldn’t go as far to say he’s obsolete. A high rank and forge would still have good survivability in master at least.

    Yes he’s bland and boring to fight as, but in a long long fight he can become tedious to fight against. Remember that grimlock time travel event, a ratchet on a physical resist mod? He was a pain to kill. Reminds me of the rhinox thread a few days ago, about his defensive utility. Might not be a world beater as an attacker, but a good defender and a nightmare combined with the right mods.

    Edit
    I think it was physical resist mod. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but can distinctly remember it being a bloody long fight
  • I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    Grimlock actually has some pretty good survivability against most classes and even a few Tacticians, but his damage output is absurdly low. His melee debuffs are weak and short and you feel compelled to constantly use heavy attacks to try and keep them because you desperately need that damage buff. I’d say make his Dino Rage a part of his passive and give him a new signature that grants him a chance for a melee buff gained from purifying a debuff to last the rest of the match.

    Ratchet is supposed to be able to outlast everyone else in the game, but he just can’t. His only way of mitigating damage is if he has a high level signature, and his repair has a similar problem to Grimlocks melee buffs:his health is very low, and his repair is slow, so it becomes very ineffective. And, as I’ve said before, he’s boring, as he reuses animations more than any other character. His basic attacks are five punches and a kick, his special 1 and special 2 are virtually the same attack animation, and his special 3 is just one ranged attack and a heavy attack from a different angle. Someone(sorry I can’t remember who) had the idea of giving him a defibrillator on his special 1 instead. Three hits of a defibrillator followed by an uppercut, with each defibrillator hit having about a 50% chance to Shock and his uppercut having a 40% chance to Stun that goes up by 20% for each Shock on the opponent. In addition, change his special 3 to him shooting his opponent twice and then ramming them. The first shot gives them a Repair Block and the second one gives them a Power Lock, after that he gains a Critical Chance Buff when he’s standing there for a second, and then he rams them. And finally, a health buff. Tech bots tend to have high health, so it seems odd for Ratchet to have such low health.

    @Manthro Optimus Prime doesn’t need a buff. He’s a strong character and exactly the kind who doesn’t need to be focused on when other characters are the way they are. And again, stop bringing up insanely powerful mods. There’s six bots who reliably counter Resistance buffs, Ramjet, Waspinator, Mixmaster, Starscream, Megatron, and Cyclonus. So bringing up a powerful mod like that is completely irrelevant to the character at hand. It’d be like saying Windblade should repair health after a Bleed or Ironhides ranged attacks should burn away power buffs or that any other Tactician should be able to counter Resistance buffs. It’s unnecessary. On a full team, Optimus gains almost 100% Attack for a few seconds after a heavy, and holding block gives you a quick armor buff that will negate most melee damage. He doesn’t need to be focused on.
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    @BrickT1973 , I said that Scorponok and Hound had the same bleed PERCENTAGE. But Scorpy's attack stat is higher, so more damage is done. (tbh, I didn't know the venom charges raised Scorp's damage as well. tbh, that's insane.) I just recommend Hound gets an attack stat boost, or a percentage raise on his Debuffs. And yes, make his ranged buff longer.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    @Manthro Optimus Prime doesn’t need a buff. He’s a strong character and exactly the kind who doesn’t need to be focused on when other characters are the way they are. And again, stop bringing up insanely powerful mods. There’s six bots who reliably counter Resistance buffs, Ramjet, Waspinator, Mixmaster, Starscream, Megatron, and Cyclonus. So bringing up a powerful mod like that is completely irrelevant to the character at hand. It’d be like saying Windblade should repair health after a Bleed or Ironhides ranged attacks should burn away power buffs or that any other Tactician should be able to counter Resistance buffs. It’s unnecessary. On a full team, Optimus gains almost 100% Attack for a few seconds after a heavy, and holding block gives you a quick armor buff that will negate most melee damage. He doesn’t need to be focused on.

    I wasn't the one that suggested OGP needs a buff. I think he is fine, but not nearly the dominating force he once was. My point was, there are at least 2 tacticians I would take over OGP if given the option.

    I was only explaining how the meta has crept past him to some extent. I call him Obsolete Prime not because he is useless, but simply because there are such good options in the tactician class, that he would be my first choice if he was my only choice (or if my other option was tact bee who is good, but I don't like).

    I prefer utility over damage potential. It's just how I like to play the game is all.
  • Manthro wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    @Manthro Optimus Prime doesn’t need a buff. He’s a strong character and exactly the kind who doesn’t need to be focused on when other characters are the way they are. And again, stop bringing up insanely powerful mods. There’s six bots who reliably counter Resistance buffs, Ramjet, Waspinator, Mixmaster, Starscream, Megatron, and Cyclonus. So bringing up a powerful mod like that is completely irrelevant to the character at hand. It’d be like saying Windblade should repair health after a Bleed or Ironhides ranged attacks should burn away power buffs or that any other Tactician should be able to counter Resistance buffs. It’s unnecessary. On a full team, Optimus gains almost 100% Attack for a few seconds after a heavy, and holding block gives you a quick armor buff that will negate most melee damage. He doesn’t need to be focused on.

    I wasn't the one that suggested OGP needs a buff. I think he is fine, but not nearly the dominating force he once was. My point was, there are at least 2 tacticians I would take over OGP if given the option.

    I was only explaining how the meta has crept past him to some extent. I call him Obsolete Prime not because he is useless, but simply because there are such good options in the tactician class, that he would be my first choice if he was my only choice (or if my other option was tact bee who is good, but I don't like).

    I prefer utility over damage potential. It's just how I like to play the game is all.

    I know you didn’t suggest he gets a buff, but you brought up a 100% Resistance Buff. For one, that’s not a common mod, and for two, it’s irrelevant to his kit.

    And personally my first choice for Tactician is Megatron, then Starscream, then Optimus. And I’d say he is still able to dominate in the hands of the player.
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    @BrickT1973 , I said that Scorponok and Hound had the same bleed PERCENTAGE. But Scorpy's attack stat is higher, so more damage is done. (tbh, I didn't know the venom charges raised Scorp's damage as well. tbh, that's insane.) I just recommend Hound gets an attack stat boost, or a percentage raise on his Debuffs. And yes, make his ranged buff longer.


    I said stat, I meant percentage, same difference basically. And yes, Scorponok is indeed a powerhouse. I just checked, and that damage increase actually stacks!
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    @BrickT1973 , I said that Scorponok and Hound had the same bleed PERCENTAGE. But Scorpy's attack stat is higher, so more damage is done. (tbh, I didn't know the venom charges raised Scorp's damage as well. tbh, that's insane.) I just recommend Hound gets an attack stat boost, or a percentage raise on his Debuffs. And yes, make his ranged buff longer.


    I said stat, I meant percentage, same difference basically. And yes, Scorponok is indeed a powerhouse. I just checked, and that damage increase actually stacks!

    IT STACKS! Man, I need to get this boy upgraded. And I never really cared about him in the cartoon. Man's a god now.
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    @BrickT1973 , I said that Scorponok and Hound had the same bleed PERCENTAGE. But Scorpy's attack stat is higher, so more damage is done. (tbh, I didn't know the venom charges raised Scorp's damage as well. tbh, that's insane.) I just recommend Hound gets an attack stat boost, or a percentage raise on his Debuffs. And yes, make his ranged buff longer.


    I said stat, I meant percentage, same difference basically. And yes, Scorponok is indeed a powerhouse. I just checked, and that damage increase actually stacks!

    IT STACKS! Man, I need to get this boy upgraded. And I never really cared about him in the cartoon. Man's a god now.

    I liked him, but I definitely think it’s weird how powerful he is. Same goes for Bonecrusher. He got killed within a minute and a half, yet he’s the monster of the game.
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    @BrickT1973 , I said that Scorponok and Hound had the same bleed PERCENTAGE. But Scorpy's attack stat is higher, so more damage is done. (tbh, I didn't know the venom charges raised Scorp's damage as well. tbh, that's insane.) I just recommend Hound gets an attack stat boost, or a percentage raise on his Debuffs. And yes, make his ranged buff longer.


    I said stat, I meant percentage, same difference basically. And yes, Scorponok is indeed a powerhouse. I just checked, and that damage increase actually stacks!

    IT STACKS! Man, I need to get this boy upgraded. And I never really cared about him in the cartoon. Man's a god now.

    I liked him, but I definitely think it’s weird how powerful he is. Same goes for Bonecrusher. He got killed within a minute and a half, yet he’s the monster of the game.
    You're definitely right about that. Like, the side-characters really feel like they were big parts of the movie. Can't even lie, I just know that BC is IN the movie, but where in the movie? idk
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    @BrickT1973 , I said that Scorponok and Hound had the same bleed PERCENTAGE. But Scorpy's attack stat is higher, so more damage is done. (tbh, I didn't know the venom charges raised Scorp's damage as well. tbh, that's insane.) I just recommend Hound gets an attack stat boost, or a percentage raise on his Debuffs. And yes, make his ranged buff longer.


    I said stat, I meant percentage, same difference basically. And yes, Scorponok is indeed a powerhouse. I just checked, and that damage increase actually stacks!

    IT STACKS! Man, I need to get this boy upgraded. And I never really cared about him in the cartoon. Man's a god now.

    I liked him, but I definitely think it’s weird how powerful he is. Same goes for Bonecrusher. He got killed within a minute and a half, yet he’s the monster of the game.
    You're definitely right about that. Like, the side-characters really feel like they were big parts of the movie. Can't even lie, I just know that BC is IN the movie, but where in the movie? idk

    Probably one of the more iconic images from the first movie is BC “skating” down the highway before tackling MV1 and then being absolutely executed by Prime. Here’s the clip man.

  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    I’m not gonna go through the trouble of quoting everyone so I’m just gonna give something quick on everyone who’s been mentioned

    Hounds damage is a big part of his problem. Someone brought up earlier that Scorponoks Bleeds have the same damage stat as Hounds Burns, but not only are Scorponoks Bleeds quicker, Scorponok also just have visibly higher base damage and is able to increase his damage with his Venom Charges. I don’t know exactly what Hound needs, but my main ideas are a longer duration on his Ranged Buff and an increase to his Burn and Bleed damage. His special 3 right now is one of the only ones in the game that isn’t much of a threat, because none of the hits or debuffs in it are strong enough.

    @BrickT1973 , I said that Scorponok and Hound had the same bleed PERCENTAGE. But Scorpy's attack stat is higher, so more damage is done. (tbh, I didn't know the venom charges raised Scorp's damage as well. tbh, that's insane.) I just recommend Hound gets an attack stat boost, or a percentage raise on his Debuffs. And yes, make his ranged buff longer.


    I said stat, I meant percentage, same difference basically. And yes, Scorponok is indeed a powerhouse. I just checked, and that damage increase actually stacks!

    IT STACKS! Man, I need to get this boy upgraded. And I never really cared about him in the cartoon. Man's a god now.

    I liked him, but I definitely think it’s weird how powerful he is. Same goes for Bonecrusher. He got killed within a minute and a half, yet he’s the monster of the game.
    You're definitely right about that. Like, the side-characters really feel like they were big parts of the movie. Can't even lie, I just know that BC is IN the movie, but where in the movie? idk

    He’s right at the start of that big final battle in the city. But Scorponok, Bonecrusher, Tantrum, Mirage, and Sideswipe aren’t ever major players but they’re all powerhouses in this game for some reason.
  • Manthro wrote: »
    Canuck33 wrote: »
    @Maximus_Prime i'm a little confused as to how OGP needs a buff? have you ever dropped an sp3 and watched the disgusting amount of bleed damage that bot proceeds to take afterwards. OGP has amazing damage output, he's got good HP, his specials are all amazing, and paired with Rat he's a healing machine. There's a reason he was voted third best bot in the game last month behind OGMT and Tronus, it's because he's amazing.

    Obsolete Prime has his uses, but against high level content and the mod lanes you have to face in AM, he is very limited.

    Sure, in arenas and most spotlight lanes he is fine, and he can deal some massive damage when there is nothing opposing his skillset, but there are far better tacticians which counter the current meta in far more scenarios.

    Take OGP in against a 100% resist mod and watch what happens. He just doesn't have the kind of utility you expect from a tactician bot. His synergies keep him just barely relevant.

    Should he be top of the list for a buff? Hell no... But he will definitely require one eventually. Nemesis Prime handles what OGP cannot, so in a way he got a buff with the release of NP.

    @Manthro TBH is disagree about the statement OGP isnt good in high level AM. Im in a top 6 alliance and hes still a monster. I also dont run him with Ratchet.
  • SkBirdman wrote: »
    Manthro wrote: »
    Canuck33 wrote: »
    @Maximus_Prime i'm a little confused as to how OGP needs a buff? have you ever dropped an sp3 and watched the disgusting amount of bleed damage that bot proceeds to take afterwards. OGP has amazing damage output, he's got good HP, his specials are all amazing, and paired with Rat he's a healing machine. There's a reason he was voted third best bot in the game last month behind OGMT and Tronus, it's because he's amazing.

    Obsolete Prime has his uses, but against high level content and the mod lanes you have to face in AM, he is very limited.

    Sure, in arenas and most spotlight lanes he is fine, and he can deal some massive damage when there is nothing opposing his skillset, but there are far better tacticians which counter the current meta in far more scenarios.

    Take OGP in against a 100% resist mod and watch what happens. He just doesn't have the kind of utility you expect from a tactician bot. His synergies keep him just barely relevant.

    Should he be top of the list for a buff? Hell no... But he will definitely require one eventually. Nemesis Prime handles what OGP cannot, so in a way he got a buff with the release of NP.

    @Manthro TBH is disagree about the statement OGP isnt good in high level AM. Im in a top 6 alliance and hes still a monster. I also dont run him with Ratchet.

    Optimus Prime should probably be the last bot in the game to ever get an update. Maybe make his armor buff last a little longer or something. But with how they work, that’d likely be a touch too much.
  • To mention bots not already discussed...

    Grimlock: Worst brawler when unduped. Relies heavily on his signature and in essence on being dealt damage. He has the highest hit pont score in the game. However, he is less durable than Grindor. I imagine devs thought that crit rate reduction would make him less likely to suffer DoT but at least he could have armour or more hit points. Being immune while in dino form is great, but also a need since his buffs need to be constantly renewed, unlike those of, say, Tantrum.

    Also, now lots of bots have DoT purification, making it less of an edge. Yeah, he gets stronger but Tantrum has an attack score that makes it irrelevant. And better not mention that synergy which makes any Beast Wars bot purify DoT at will making a heavy (and gain attack for a short time by the way). That was the best feature of Grimlock and they gave it as a synergy... any Beast Wars character can have it by joining Primal and other beast pal and it is not like they have few defenses (crit armour, heal on regular hits, power drain immunity...).

    I would just give him more hit points (now he seems to be able to take a hit or two more than other brawlers without taking armour into account...). Also he should be able to mantain his buffs longer without having to revert to dino form. I don't play high level AM but I remember some pros told at these levels making a heavy was like russian roulette. Also reducing purfied damage to a mere scratch. Those would be minor changes which would improve Grim a lot.

    Optimus Prime generations: I know many are going to think he does not need any buff etc. Of course he is not that bad, but he has not aged well. His armour only lasts about 2.5 seconds. This makes him eat any sp3 at full damage while other bots which are far weaker in the lore like Grindor and Bludgeon can at least reduce the first hit or two. Also, the DoT brawler trend has made him weaker against the class he has class advantage.
    Not only that, but there are bots with outright anti Prime powers, like resisting heavies from land vehicles or increased unstoppable as you have less life (at least this one was more balanced). What does OP have to gain an edge vs those bots (some of them brawlers like Thundercracker)? Nothing at all.
    OP can do permanent armour break, but on sp3. Megatron does it at sp1!
    His synergies are good but force you to use a given team. And by the way, Megatron's synergies are not weaker. That with Starscream almost guarantees he will fuse the debuff on you. That is more game changing that some healing.
    Optimus is just not on par with Primal, Generations Megatron, Galvatron or Megatronus. And he should.

    There are many powerful OP out there because many love the character. I do, but if I wanted a really powerful team, I would go for Beast Team or a Decepticon team.

    In order to improve him I would make his armour last longer or be able to activate it passively. Not a complicated thing, but Optimus would become far more durable than other bots, as it seems it was intended originally.

    You need to fuse the armor break after you did it with G1 Meg... Of course if you are playing with Megatron, you will fuse it from one of the 3 heavy shots (not 100% sure) but what if the enemy is playing with him? You always dodge his heavy right? As you dodge OP's special 1 too.. But if OP get his special 3 you get the permanent armor break PLUS the bleeds on crit, while megatron do nothing permanent to you any of his specials.. only if you eat the heavy
  • DrShotgunDrShotgun Posts: 2,121
    I absolutely agree Grimlock needs some tweaking. He is unbelievable pillow fisted and his armor sucks. The only lane he really shines in is shock block where you can stack the debuffs...and raids. I like Grimlock, but he's supposed to be powerful, and he's just not.
  • To mention bots not already discussed...

    Grimlock: Worst brawler when unduped. Relies heavily on his signature and in essence on being dealt damage. He has the highest hit pont score in the game. However, he is less durable than Grindor. I imagine devs thought that crit rate reduction would make him less likely to suffer DoT but at least he could have armour or more hit points. Being immune while in dino form is great, but also a need since his buffs need to be constantly renewed, unlike those of, say, Tantrum.

    Also, now lots of bots have DoT purification, making it less of an edge. Yeah, he gets stronger but Tantrum has an attack score that makes it irrelevant. And better not mention that synergy which makes any Beast Wars bot purify DoT at will making a heavy (and gain attack for a short time by the way). That was the best feature of Grimlock and they gave it as a synergy... any Beast Wars character can have it by joining Primal and other beast pal and it is not like they have few defenses (crit armour, heal on regular hits, power drain immunity...).

    I would just give him more hit points (now he seems to be able to take a hit or two more than other brawlers without taking armour into account...). Also he should be able to mantain his buffs longer without having to revert to dino form. I don't play high level AM but I remember some pros told at these levels making a heavy was like russian roulette. Also reducing purfied damage to a mere scratch. Those would be minor changes which would improve Grim a lot.

    Optimus Prime generations: I know many are going to think he does not need any buff etc. Of course he is not that bad, but he has not aged well. His armour only lasts about 2.5 seconds. This makes him eat any sp3 at full damage while other bots which are far weaker in the lore like Grindor and Bludgeon can at least reduce the first hit or two. Also, the DoT brawler trend has made him weaker against the class he has class advantage.
    Not only that, but there are bots with outright anti Prime powers, like resisting heavies from land vehicles or increased unstoppable as you have less life (at least this one was more balanced). What does OP have to gain an edge vs those bots (some of them brawlers like Thundercracker)? Nothing at all.
    OP can do permanent armour break, but on sp3. Megatron does it at sp1!
    His synergies are good but force you to use a given team. And by the way, Megatron's synergies are not weaker. That with Starscream almost guarantees he will fuse the debuff on you. That is more game changing that some healing.
    Optimus is just not on par with Primal, Generations Megatron, Galvatron or Megatronus. And he should.

    There are many powerful OP out there because many love the character. I do, but if I wanted a really powerful team, I would go for Beast Team or a Decepticon team.

    In order to improve him I would make his armour last longer or be able to activate it passively. Not a complicated thing, but Optimus would become far more durable than other bots, as it seems it was intended originally.

    You need to fuse the armor break after you did it with G1 Meg... Of course if you are playing with Megatron, you will fuse it from one of the 3 heavy shots (not 100% sure) but what if the enemy is playing with him? You always dodge his heavy right? As you dodge OP's special 1 too.. But if OP get his special 3 you get the permanent armor break PLUS the bleeds on crit, while megatron do nothing permanent to you any of his specials.. only if you eat the heavy

    If you let OG Prime get to SP3, you're very likely to be at the same skill level where you eat OGMT's fusion blasts.
  • To mention bots not already discussed...

    Grimlock: Worst brawler when unduped. Relies heavily on his signature and in essence on being dealt damage. He has the highest hit pont score in the game. However, he is less durable than Grindor. I imagine devs thought that crit rate reduction would make him less likely to suffer DoT but at least he could have armour or more hit points. Being immune while in dino form is great, but also a need since his buffs need to be constantly renewed, unlike those of, say, Tantrum.

    Also, now lots of bots have DoT purification, making it less of an edge. Yeah, he gets stronger but Tantrum has an attack score that makes it irrelevant. And better not mention that synergy which makes any Beast Wars bot purify DoT at will making a heavy (and gain attack for a short time by the way). That was the best feature of Grimlock and they gave it as a synergy... any Beast Wars character can have it by joining Primal and other beast pal and it is not like they have few defenses (crit armour, heal on regular hits, power drain immunity...).

    I would just give him more hit points (now he seems to be able to take a hit or two more than other brawlers without taking armour into account...). Also he should be able to mantain his buffs longer without having to revert to dino form. I don't play high level AM but I remember some pros told at these levels making a heavy was like russian roulette. Also reducing purfied damage to a mere scratch. Those would be minor changes which would improve Grim a lot.

    Optimus Prime generations: I know many are going to think he does not need any buff etc. Of course he is not that bad, but he has not aged well. His armour only lasts about 2.5 seconds. This makes him eat any sp3 at full damage while other bots which are far weaker in the lore like Grindor and Bludgeon can at least reduce the first hit or two. Also, the DoT brawler trend has made him weaker against the class he has class advantage.
    Not only that, but there are bots with outright anti Prime powers, like resisting heavies from land vehicles or increased unstoppable as you have less life (at least this one was more balanced). What does OP have to gain an edge vs those bots (some of them brawlers like Thundercracker)? Nothing at all.
    OP can do permanent armour break, but on sp3. Megatron does it at sp1!
    His synergies are good but force you to use a given team. And by the way, Megatron's synergies are not weaker. That with Starscream almost guarantees he will fuse the debuff on you. That is more game changing that some healing.
    Optimus is just not on par with Primal, Generations Megatron, Galvatron or Megatronus. And he should.

    There are many powerful OP out there because many love the character. I do, but if I wanted a really powerful team, I would go for Beast Team or a Decepticon team.

    In order to improve him I would make his armour last longer or be able to activate it passively. Not a complicated thing, but Optimus would become far more durable than other bots, as it seems it was intended originally.

    You need to fuse the armor break after you did it with G1 Meg... Of course if you are playing with Megatron, you will fuse it from one of the 3 heavy shots (not 100% sure) but what if the enemy is playing with him? You always dodge his heavy right? As you dodge OP's special 1 too.. But if OP get his special 3 you get the permanent armor break PLUS the bleeds on crit, while megatron do nothing permanent to you any of his specials.. only if you eat the heavy

    If you let OG Prime get to SP3, you're very likely to be at the same skill level where you eat OGMT's fusion blasts.

    To be fair sometimes a special 3 is just unavoidable, or least close to it. But Megatrons AI typically is easy to predict as hell often fire off all three fusion cannon blasts in a row.
  • Regarding Optimus I did not say he was the worst bot around. He is good, but not what he used to be as new bots and new AM/Special mission mods, plus buffs on older bots have made him less powerful in comparison. Most faction leaders outclass him, exception being movie Megatron. He should be on par with them, that's why he does need a buff.

    I would at least buff his armour so that it lasts longer or can activate passively as well as when blocking. Right now, his armour is irrelevant for sp3, as most animations are long enough for him being hit when his armour is gone. Other armoured bots, like Grindor or Bludgeon can have their armour in place during the sp3 or at least its first hits. Primal will have it during all sp3, along with his usual crit immunity.

    Damage wise I agree he does a lot of melee damage.

    Optimus permanent armour break at sp 3 is 35%, Megatron at sp 1 is 38%. Yes, Megatron has to hit with a heavy to fuse, but with 3 tries you will most likely do it, not to mention that with Starscream synergy you have a 70% to stun the foe. Usually you can hit your foe with two heavies in that situation before he gets to react.

    One last thing. As @Mr_Wonderful said the key to get an effective OP versus brawlers is to avoid duping him. That alone should make us think about buffing him, as it would be the only case in the game where you benefit from not duping your bot. As things stand now
    • Duped Primal heals on OP bleeds and depending on dupe level from both bots he could actually gain life after a bleed. Primal is also immune to crits while his crit armour is on and the bleed triggers on a crit, so it may not be a problem :p
    • Thundercracker seems as he was designed to make OP life difficult. Not only he resists heavies from OP until he is almost dead, when duped he has a chance to purify that permanent armour break! He can purify those bleeds any time just launching a heavy.
    • Tantrum is basically a monster. He does have some armour (permanent 10%). Real problem though is his unstoppable and his melee buffs, which OP can't nullify (the latter can lead to a nuke style sp3). Also he can become immune to bleeds for some time or purify them.
    • Grimlock does not have any armour and gets stronger with those bleeds. Fortunately for OP he has not aged well either and his attack stat is lackuster.
    • Grindor is still easy for Prime. He was improved a bit some time ago but despite being tankier he is not a problem. However, his crit rate reduction debuffs make somewhat difficult to bleed him.
    • Optimus Mv1 is at a disadvantage vs OP but from time to time he can give him a nasty surprise. You know that sp1 or sp3 when his sig is on...
    • Motormaster relies on unstoppable as his main advantage. OP has nothing which directly counters that. Furthermore, all of the debuffs Motormaster can inflict hamper OP. And you better take down MM without leaving him at a low health level... because then each hit from him will hurt, with class disadvantage and all. Buffed OP armour (lasting more or being able to activate passively) could help here, as most combos last enough for OP armour to dissapear and he never enjoys that protection.

    It could be acceptable that he didn't trash easily all brawlers but the situation above is not what one would expect from a great tact bot.
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    To mention bots not already discussed...

    Grimlock: Worst brawler when unduped. Relies heavily on his signature and in essence on being dealt damage. He has the highest hit pont score in the game. However, he is less durable than Grindor. I imagine devs thought that crit rate reduction would make him less likely to suffer DoT but at least he could have armour or more hit points. Being immune while in dino form is great, but also a need since his buffs need to be constantly renewed, unlike those of, say, Tantrum.

    Also, now lots of bots have DoT purification, making it less of an edge. Yeah, he gets stronger but Tantrum has an attack score that makes it irrelevant. And better not mention that synergy which makes any Beast Wars bot purify DoT at will making a heavy (and gain attack for a short time by the way). That was the best feature of Grimlock and they gave it as a synergy... any Beast Wars character can have it by joining Primal and other beast pal and it is not like they have few defenses (crit armour, heal on regular hits, power drain immunity...).

    I would just give him more hit points (now he seems to be able to take a hit or two more than other brawlers without taking armour into account...). Also he should be able to mantain his buffs longer without having to revert to dino form. I don't play high level AM but I remember some pros told at these levels making a heavy was like russian roulette. Also reducing purfied damage to a mere scratch. Those would be minor changes which would improve Grim a lot.

    Optimus Prime generations: I know many are going to think he does not need any buff etc. Of course he is not that bad, but he has not aged well. His armour only lasts about 2.5 seconds. This makes him eat any sp3 at full damage while other bots which are far weaker in the lore like Grindor and Bludgeon can at least reduce the first hit or two. Also, the DoT brawler trend has made him weaker against the class he has class advantage.
    Not only that, but there are bots with outright anti Prime powers, like resisting heavies from land vehicles or increased unstoppable as you have less life (at least this one was more balanced). What does OP have to gain an edge vs those bots (some of them brawlers like Thundercracker)? Nothing at all.
    OP can do permanent armour break, but on sp3. Megatron does it at sp1!
    His synergies are good but force you to use a given team. And by the way, Megatron's synergies are not weaker. That with Starscream almost guarantees he will fuse the debuff on you. That is more game changing that some healing.
    Optimus is just not on par with Primal, Generations Megatron, Galvatron or Megatronus. And he should.

    There are many powerful OP out there because many love the character. I do, but if I wanted a really powerful team, I would go for Beast Team or a Decepticon team.

    In order to improve him I would make his armour last longer or be able to activate it passively. Not a complicated thing, but Optimus would become far more durable than other bots, as it seems it was intended originally.

    You need to fuse the armor break after you did it with G1 Meg... Of course if you are playing with Megatron, you will fuse it from one of the 3 heavy shots (not 100% sure) but what if the enemy is playing with him? You always dodge his heavy right? As you dodge OP's special 1 too.. But if OP get his special 3 you get the permanent armor break PLUS the bleeds on crit, while megatron do nothing permanent to you any of his specials.. only if you eat the heavy

    If you let OG Prime get to SP3, you're very likely to be at the same skill level where you eat OGMT's fusion blasts.

    To be fair sometimes a special 3 is just unavoidable, or least close to it. But Megatrons AI typically is easy to predict as hell often fire off all three fusion cannon blasts in a row.

    I’m going to agree there, but only in certain situations. Duped prowl being one. I’d rather push him to sp3 if I’m against an unblockable mod. Galvatron can be quite tricky to work around with his sig if you live dangerously, personally I find his sp2 easier to dodge but that comes with a catch I guess. Not going to go into megatronus.

    Most other bots, I’d say it lies with the player skill to bait the special out. Practically all are avoidable, with the exception of a sneaky mix of prowl sp2 when you’re dashing in.

    @Maximus_Prime the issue I guess there is, what if you’ve got a duped 5* prime? No forging away there. Unless he gets a synergy somehow that works like enforcers where it can’t be purified, then yeah it needs a tweak. But hey, enforcers is a synergy and not a key aspect of the bot itself as such, so a synergy seems like the best answer here rather than changing the bot itself. I’ve always wanted g1 bee to offer more synergy wise to prime. He’s the single main bot of his faction so he deserves a bit more. Personally I think the primes and megatrons should offer more than most others being who they are. Shockwave and tronus being other exceptions to that, but they’re already strong enough, no tweaks needed.

    @Kabam Vydious considering there’s been a good amount of bots released since the original set, would it be too far out of the question to request a synergy rework to bring many of the older bots up to par? Even g1 megs has plenty unique synergies coming in, which prime does not. Even some of the enemies synergies could do with tweaking.

    As top dog of the autobots, prime deserves to have more.
  • BaRdYaAmNBaRdYaAmN Posts: 1,496
    edited September 2019
    1 buff I feel like is necessary is primal's Sig, specifically how it deals with multiple bleeds and allowing more than 1 heal at the same time.
    When 2 expire within the same time it'll only give 1 heal, I find that annoying...
  • BrickT1973BrickT1973 Posts: 334
    edited September 2019
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    To mention bots not already discussed...

    Grimlock: Worst brawler when unduped. Relies heavily on his signature and in essence on being dealt damage. He has the highest hit pont score in the game. However, he is less durable than Grindor. I imagine devs thought that crit rate reduction would make him less likely to suffer DoT but at least he could have armour or more hit points. Being immune while in dino form is great, but also a need since his buffs need to be constantly renewed, unlike those of, say, Tantrum.

    Also, now lots of bots have DoT purification, making it less of an edge. Yeah, he gets stronger but Tantrum has an attack score that makes it irrelevant. And better not mention that synergy which makes any Beast Wars bot purify DoT at will making a heavy (and gain attack for a short time by the way). That was the best feature of Grimlock and they gave it as a synergy... any Beast Wars character can have it by joining Primal and other beast pal and it is not like they have few defenses (crit armour, heal on regular hits, power drain immunity...).

    I would just give him more hit points (now he seems to be able to take a hit or two more than other brawlers without taking armour into account...). Also he should be able to mantain his buffs longer without having to revert to dino form. I don't play high level AM but I remember some pros told at these levels making a heavy was like russian roulette. Also reducing purfied damage to a mere scratch. Those would be minor changes which would improve Grim a lot.

    Optimus Prime generations: I know many are going to think he does not need any buff etc. Of course he is not that bad, but he has not aged well. His armour only lasts about 2.5 seconds. This makes him eat any sp3 at full damage while other bots which are far weaker in the lore like Grindor and Bludgeon can at least reduce the first hit or two. Also, the DoT brawler trend has made him weaker against the class he has class advantage.
    Not only that, but there are bots with outright anti Prime powers, like resisting heavies from land vehicles or increased unstoppable as you have less life (at least this one was more balanced). What does OP have to gain an edge vs those bots (some of them brawlers like Thundercracker)? Nothing at all.
    OP can do permanent armour break, but on sp3. Megatron does it at sp1!
    His synergies are good but force you to use a given team. And by the way, Megatron's synergies are not weaker. That with Starscream almost guarantees he will fuse the debuff on you. That is more game changing that some healing.
    Optimus is just not on par with Primal, Generations Megatron, Galvatron or Megatronus. And he should.

    There are many powerful OP out there because many love the character. I do, but if I wanted a really powerful team, I would go for Beast Team or a Decepticon team.

    In order to improve him I would make his armour last longer or be able to activate it passively. Not a complicated thing, but Optimus would become far more durable than other bots, as it seems it was intended originally.

    You need to fuse the armor break after you did it with G1 Meg... Of course if you are playing with Megatron, you will fuse it from one of the 3 heavy shots (not 100% sure) but what if the enemy is playing with him? You always dodge his heavy right? As you dodge OP's special 1 too.. But if OP get his special 3 you get the permanent armor break PLUS the bleeds on crit, while megatron do nothing permanent to you any of his specials.. only if you eat the heavy

    If you let OG Prime get to SP3, you're very likely to be at the same skill level where you eat OGMT's fusion blasts.

    To be fair sometimes a special 3 is just unavoidable, or least close to it. But Megatrons AI typically is easy to predict as hell often fire off all three fusion cannon blasts in a row.

    I’m going to agree there, but only in certain situations. Duped prowl being one. I’d rather push him to sp3 if I’m against an unblockable mod. Galvatron can be quite tricky to work around with his sig if you live dangerously, personally I find his sp2 easier to dodge but that comes with a catch I guess. Not going to go into megatronus.

    Most other bots, I’d say it lies with the player skill to bait the special out. Practically all are avoidable, with the exception of a sneaky mix of prowl sp2 when you’re dashing in.

    @Maximus_Prime the issue I guess there is, what if you’ve got a duped 5* prime? No forging away there. Unless he gets a synergy somehow that works like enforcers where it can’t be purified, then yeah it needs a tweak. But hey, enforcers is a synergy and not a key aspect of the bot itself as such, so a synergy seems like the best answer here rather than changing the bot itself. I’ve always wanted g1 bee to offer more synergy wise to prime. He’s the single main bot of his faction so he deserves a bit more. Personally I think the primes and megatrons should offer more than most others being who they are. Shockwave and tronus being other exceptions to that, but they’re already strong enough, no tweaks needed.

    @Kabam Vydious considering there’s been a good amount of bots released since the original set, would it be too far out of the question to request a synergy rework to bring many of the older bots up to par? Even g1 megs has plenty unique synergies coming in, which prime does not. Even some of the enemies synergies could do with tweaking.

    As top dog of the autobots, prime deserves to have more.

    Optimus and Megatrons synergies are actually styled to reflect their character.

    Megatron is selfish, so his synergies give him unique and powerful buffs while his allies get more generic ones

    Optimus Prime is selfless, so his synergies strengthen his allies in unique ways while he only enhances his basic aspects. Plus, Primes armor and attack buffs are directly related to being on a team. He is strengthened by the presence of his friends. It’s part of what makes this game so great, you can see how all the abilities are based off their characters personalities.
  • BrickT1973 wrote: »
    BrickT1973 wrote: »
    To mention bots not already discussed...

    Grimlock: Worst brawler when unduped. Relies heavily on his signature and in essence on being dealt damage. He has the highest hit pont score in the game. However, he is less durable than Grindor. I imagine devs thought that crit rate reduction would make him less likely to suffer DoT but at least he could have armour or more hit points. Being immune while in dino form is great, but also a need since his buffs need to be constantly renewed, unlike those of, say, Tantrum.

    Also, now lots of bots have DoT purification, making it less of an edge. Yeah, he gets stronger but Tantrum has an attack score that makes it irrelevant. And better not mention that synergy which makes any Beast Wars bot purify DoT at will making a heavy (and gain attack for a short time by the way). That was the best feature of Grimlock and they gave it as a synergy... any Beast Wars character can have it by joining Primal and other beast pal and it is not like they have few defenses (crit armour, heal on regular hits, power drain immunity...).

    I would just give him more hit points (now he seems to be able to take a hit or two more than other brawlers without taking armour into account...). Also he should be able to mantain his buffs longer without having to revert to dino form. I don't play high level AM but I remember some pros told at these levels making a heavy was like russian roulette. Also reducing purfied damage to a mere scratch. Those would be minor changes which would improve Grim a lot.

    Optimus Prime generations: I know many are going to think he does not need any buff etc. Of course he is not that bad, but he has not aged well. His armour only lasts about 2.5 seconds. This makes him eat any sp3 at full damage while other bots which are far weaker in the lore like Grindor and Bludgeon can at least reduce the first hit or two. Also, the DoT brawler trend has made him weaker against the class he has class advantage.
    Not only that, but there are bots with outright anti Prime powers, like resisting heavies from land vehicles or increased unstoppable as you have less life (at least this one was more balanced). What does OP have to gain an edge vs those bots (some of them brawlers like Thundercracker)? Nothing at all.
    OP can do permanent armour break, but on sp3. Megatron does it at sp1!
    His synergies are good but force you to use a given team. And by the way, Megatron's synergies are not weaker. That with Starscream almost guarantees he will fuse the debuff on you. That is more game changing that some healing.
    Optimus is just not on par with Primal, Generations Megatron, Galvatron or Megatronus. And he should.

    There are many powerful OP out there because many love the character. I do, but if I wanted a really powerful team, I would go for Beast Team or a Decepticon team.

    In order to improve him I would make his armour last longer or be able to activate it passively. Not a complicated thing, but Optimus would become far more durable than other bots, as it seems it was intended originally.

    You need to fuse the armor break after you did it with G1 Meg... Of course if you are playing with Megatron, you will fuse it from one of the 3 heavy shots (not 100% sure) but what if the enemy is playing with him? You always dodge his heavy right? As you dodge OP's special 1 too.. But if OP get his special 3 you get the permanent armor break PLUS the bleeds on crit, while megatron do nothing permanent to you any of his specials.. only if you eat the heavy

    If you let OG Prime get to SP3, you're very likely to be at the same skill level where you eat OGMT's fusion blasts.

    To be fair sometimes a special 3 is just unavoidable, or least close to it. But Megatrons AI typically is easy to predict as hell often fire off all three fusion cannon blasts in a row.

    I’m going to agree there, but only in certain situations. Duped prowl being one. I’d rather push him to sp3 if I’m against an unblockable mod. Galvatron can be quite tricky to work around with his sig if you live dangerously, personally I find his sp2 easier to dodge but that comes with a catch I guess. Not going to go into megatronus.

    Most other bots, I’d say it lies with the player skill to bait the special out. Practically all are avoidable, with the exception of a sneaky mix of prowl sp2 when you’re dashing in.

    @Maximus_Prime the issue I guess there is, what if you’ve got a duped 5* prime? No forging away there. Unless he gets a synergy somehow that works like enforcers where it can’t be purified, then yeah it needs a tweak. But hey, enforcers is a synergy and not a key aspect of the bot itself as such, so a synergy seems like the best answer here rather than changing the bot itself. I’ve always wanted g1 bee to offer more synergy wise to prime. He’s the single main bot of his faction so he deserves a bit more. Personally I think the primes and megatrons should offer more than most others being who they are. Shockwave and tronus being other exceptions to that, but they’re already strong enough, no tweaks needed.

    @Kabam Vydious considering there’s been a good amount of bots released since the original set, would it be too far out of the question to request a synergy rework to bring many of the older bots up to par? Even g1 megs has plenty unique synergies coming in, which prime does not. Even some of the enemies synergies could do with tweaking.

    As top dog of the autobots, prime deserves to have more.

    Optimus and Megatrons synergies are actually styled to reflect their character.

    Megatron is selfish, so his synergies give him unique and powerful buffs while his allies get more generic ones

    Optimus Prime is selfless, so his synergies strengthen his allies in unique ways while he only enhances his basic aspects. Plus, Primes armor and attack buffs are directly related to being on a team. He is strengthened by the presence of his friends. It’s part of what makes this game so great, you can see how all the abilities are based off their characters personalities.

    Megatron is selfish[/b, had to correct it for you my man.
  • There we go, it’s fixed

    My point still stands

    And not to kill discussion, but Optimus Prime and Megatron do not need buffs. I can effectively fight every bot in the game with either of them. I’ve even taken out Bonecrushers and Megatronus’ with them because they’re just that good. Optimus Prime and Megatron are weak to no one and absolutely do not need any buffs. They’re the leaders and they’re among the games best. The only one genuinely better than them is an old god.
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