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This game simply isn't viable for F2P players (important feedback within)

I get that you guys, the devs, are focusing on the whales. That's fine, most mobile games do. But right now you're doing so at the expense of your free to play players and player retention, that's a bad idea. This game is falling into the same pitfalls every previous transformers mobile game has done, and with the brand name already tainted making the game in such a similar fashion is going to kill this game faster and faster.

I haven't been playing very long and already I've already been seeing a lot of people quit because they couldn't roll anything decent and were stuck with garbage units. On my second day raiding and arenas had become nearly impossible because everyone had maxed out two star units, while I only had one two star unit total. All of the story opponents have been steadily getting stronger at such a pace that even my leveled up one star units won't be useful for too much longer. Third day? I used my energon to roll for more bots and got mostly repeat units of that one two star unit.

A game shouldn't brick wall a player because they've had bad luck. No one wants to keep playing a game where they either have to pay, and then rely on RNG to tell them whether or not they can continue, or they can't play because everything around them is too strong to continue onward. This game even takes it a step further by doing something I've seen no successful RNG based mobile game do; we can't properly upgrade our units. Players who never roll a native three or four star unit are forever at a disadvantage because there's simply no way to turn our two star units into three star units. Every single successful mobile game lets you do this, upgrade units into stronger forms using rare items. The only ones I've seen that don't do this have been failures like the past transformers mobile games. Games that had the exact same business strategy as this one.

Especially in a game with a decently prominent PVP element like this game, it seems especially backwards to forever put a large segment of the userbase at a permanent disadvantage just because they're unwilling, or unable, to spend hundreds of dollars each month on getting the latest units and fully upgrading them(which requires rolling duplicates of that unit.) I've already stopped trying to raid because there's just no point to it when everyone is objectively stronger than me at this point. Given how many members of my alliance have stopped logging in, I can't help but feel like other people feel the same way as well. Even story mode quickly escalates to a point where if you don't have a team of three or four star units then you won't be able to do well at all.

It doesn't help that the crystal spins are rigged. Well, rigged is the wrong word. The rolls are pretty obviously fixed, the timing of when you get to stop it doesn't matter. Just last night I had one stop on a long line of five or more gold units then it slowly, slowly ticked past each one to stop on another two star bumblebee. Any other time it never ticked past more than two after hitting stop. Combine that with the fact that the only way to get higher ranked units is this frustrating RNG, it doesn't inspire much faith for more frugal players. I've seen people try for good units in other games. I've watched people spend over a thousand dollars and still not roll a high level unit. If your entire plan is that the -only- way to get a good unit is through RNG, then no thanks. I'm not going to give you guys my money at all, because I've seen what goes on down this path.

So here's my proposition; add a new upgrade option that lets us increase a max level/rank unit to a base level/rank of the next tier. So I could turn my one star Motormaster into a two star Motormaster. Make it cost a hefty amount of gold, make the items to do so fairly rare but not impossible to get, they would be great prizes for the arena, as special event awards and other things to encourage people to play the game and not give up when they realize they've had bad luck and have no other options available to them.

The gameplay is fun, guys. But the rest of the game's design seems like it's made to shove out anyone reluctant to sit there spending dollar after dollar until a random number generator spits out a good one. I beg you not to go down the same path Battle Tactics did, where after a while the vast majority of the community left because the only people who could get -anything- where the people willing to spend hundreds upon hundreds of dollars each month to win PVP events. Even the lesser whales couldn't get anything despite their investments because of how jacked the rolls got towards the end, and the developers staunchly refused to listen to a single bit of criticism right to the end.
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Comments

  • AmanoAmano Posts: 318
    Lol this post is crazy I've barely spent a dollar and I'm doing just fine it's called time you have to put it in
  • HydroclawHydroclaw Posts: 66
    I understand it can be frustrating for a beginner and be hit with bad rng rolls but give it time and you will get past it. This game is largely modeled after Kabam's other wildly successful game Marvel Contest of Champions. Now I doubt that a Transformers game will be as successful as a Marvel game but if MCOC is any indication, this game will do just fine.
  • HydroclawHydroclaw Posts: 66
    BTW the crystal spinning is just for fun. The result is decided when you drag the crystal to the middle.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    edited April 2017
    There isn't currently any unusable bots either nothing is bad persay. Now I didn't read the entire novel but to say you have to have certain bots now is certainly not the case.

    You can beat entire first act with 2* like all of us did. 4* you can't even rank so they cost a fortune for leveling and a 3* does better. As well there are a lot of guys in 15-20k account ratings that have spent zero dollars just spent time.

    These games are all about you can spend time or money to advance.

    Lastly yes they are going to always have feature bots ect for people who want to spend money, if people don't spend money you have no game.

    1 guy that spends is > than 1 million playerbase that never spends a dime
  • SkubSkub Posts: 28
    "but to say you have to have certain bots now is certainly not the case"
    Not specific character bots, but star value bots. Thee and four star bots are objectively superior to one and two star bots. Players who get lucky, or spend more money, have an objective advantage over players who are unlucky and don't roll any.

    A lot of the post is based on experience with other, now dead, games that started off with similar models of design and business as this one. It's entirely possible that this game will buck the trend and be successful but a relatively few small changes could mean the world in player retention and a more positive spread in word of mouth.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    edited April 2017
    4* is still currently irrelevant it's just flashy they aren't significantly better, a 3* is higher rating than 4*

    You do realize they also have 3* crystals ect as you progress you are given?

    This is same business model as contest of champions that hasn't went defunked in going on 2.5 years and makes more money than you can count? Seems to worked there

    As well game has been out a week, so no one could have spent "that" much time to grinding to earn more energon and buy more bots ect
  • CandKaneCandKane Posts: 718
    I actually did spend a little bit, just like I occasionally do in MCOC, but my strongest bot right now is a 2 star Sideswipe that I got and ranked up completely free of charge. The ten bucks I spent got me a third 3 star bot but again, I got two others via RNG and playing as much as I could since launch.
    These types of games (gacha) are insanely popular believe it or not, and Kabam's setup here is much more generous than, say, Fire Emblem Heroes. It takes a bit to get amazing characters, true, but keep in mind that the global launch isn't even a week old.
  • Alkaiser_93Alkaiser_93 Posts: 249
    edited April 2017
    Kabam already stablished their gameplans with MCoC. They won't change the game model they had created already just like that.

    It's like somebody else said above. I haven't expended a single dollar on the game and I'm doing 50-50. Not well but not bad either.
  • SkubSkub Posts: 28
    " Kabam's setup here is much more generous than, say, Fire Emblem Heroes."
    I actually would have used Heroes are a better example. It's extremely easy to level up, and rank up, your units and the game hands out new orbs constantly as well as increasing a small multiplier any time you don't roll a native five-star unit, and even if you don't roll one you can easily upgrade any unit to a five-star state with a fair bit of investment.
  • Alkaiser_93Alkaiser_93 Posts: 249
    edited April 2017
    Honestly, you can't compare Nintendo and Kabam. Even so, you can't compare a RPG with a fighting game.
  • SkubSkub Posts: 28
    Yeah, that's why I avoided direct comparisons in my original post. The games and their models are very different. What works for one game might not work for another and all, as well. I just feel like small changes here and there, such as the aforementioned ability to upgrade our unit's star ranking, would enhance this game a lot. Ultimately it's up to the staff whether or not they think this would work for their game.
  • You make it seem like content is impossible without 3 star bots. I only have two 3 star bots. One from Act 1 100% and the other was the $10 Bumblebee offer. I'm level 27 and I still haven't pulled anything other than 2 star bots from premiums. No big deal though because I honestly don't even use my 3 stars for questing yet. I'm currently doing just fine in Act 2 with a team of 4 2 stars and only one of them is maxed.
  • tekkn1kaltekkn1kal Posts: 430
    No offense man, but I think you just aren't giving it enough time. This game is alllll about huge time sink -- EVEN if you spend money. But that being said, Kabam has the most successful mobile game ever and this game is a carbon copy in many ways.

    Does it help to be lucky? Absolutely. Does putting money in to the game speed things up? If we're talking $10-20, maybe a little but it's just usually superficial things. If you really wanted money to make a difference, you'd have to be spending hundreds and even then you still have to grind your face off.

    Some things that might help you to understand...

    - first off, this game was in beta for 4 months, and the beta accounts did not get wiped. I'm not saying every 4* you see is a beta account, but when you run in to a defense that is a bunch of r3 3*s and well ranked 3 and 4* mods, yeah that's a beta player. But they played FOUR months to get there and you've been playing maybe a week, and from the sound of it not very hard.

    - secondly, the way arena works is that it is set up for you to fail at a certain point. It intentionally gets harder and harder and tries to make it too hard for you to pass at a certain point. But, there is a formula to getting better match-ups, so the reality is you really just need to understand more about how arena works as a concept, and how to develop your bots to best succeed in arena. That being said, you probably won't be pulling down the 4* bot prize anytime soon because even though you don't have to play against the beta players, you are far behind if you haven't played at least 6 months or so of mcoc, because those guys might as well have 6 months of experience in this game cause it's the same thing.

    So I don't know what to tell you, man. The general game model isn't going to change, but if you do put in the time, you will actually feel a sense of accomplishment in what you've built.

    Just don't expect to log in tomorrow and be there. This game takes a lot of work, it isn't mortal kombat with a roulette wheel.
  • ManthroManthro Posts: 2,752
    edited April 2017
    This game is the 2nd most f2p friendly mobile game I have ever played. You just need time to get there man. I jumped into the beta maybe 6 weeks ago and I haven't spent a dime.

    I've got 7 3* bots, one 4*, and 16 1 and 2* bots respectively.

    Even with all those bots, if you want the free rewards you gotta play like a mofo in the arena to get them. Time spent is still required no matter how much $$$ a player may sink into the game

    I'm STILL grinding my face off for ore and sparks to rank up two of my 3* bots, and my 4* will take MONTHS to get the two alpha sparks needed just to get it to rank TWO in the current game economy.

    Play the game, enjoy. Half the fun is the satisfaction of finally ranking up your rarest bots and peeling your opponents face off afterwards.

  • It is possible to play f2p. All you have to do join active alliance and grind.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    CandKane wrote: »
    These types of games (gacha) are insanely popular believe it or not, and Kabam's setup here is much more generous than, say, Fire Emblem Heroes. It takes a bit to get amazing characters, true, but keep in mind that the global launch isn't even a week old.

    The transformers gacha system is terrible. Simply pulling the unit is not enough, if you want its full power you need a second copy at the same star level to unlock its signature ability and a copy 1 star lower to unlock its max forge capacity.

    Sounds like complete gacha to me, the system that was deemed illegal in japan ages ago, because it's too much gambling.

    Getting the character should be enough, not multiple copies of it.
  • FarkasFarkas Posts: 63
    You guys act like Forging is the next best thing. Its not. Its a SLIGHT power increase can an unforged bot vs a fully max forge win? Yeah any day of the week.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    Farkas wrote: »
    You guys act like Forging is the next best thing. Its not. Its a SLIGHT power increase can an unforged bot vs a fully max forge win? Yeah any day of the week.

    Gambling and getting a character once should be enough. A player should not be forced to gamble multiple times to be able to unlock the full potential of their character.
  • FarkasFarkas Posts: 63
    Its a long game think not a got it today maxed it out 3 days later. This is part of what will keep the game going long term and keep Arenas ect having a purpose for all players.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    Terminal wrote: »
    Farkas wrote: »
    You guys act like Forging is the next best thing. Its not. Its a SLIGHT power increase can an unforged bot vs a fully max forge win? Yeah any day of the week.

    Gambling and getting a character once should be enough. A player should not be forced to gamble multiple times to be able to unlock the full potential of their character.

    Once again you only have to forge the same bot one time you can forge any of the other 16 bots as many times as you need or your hearts desire so not sure where the having to gamble pull same bot pull same bot again mentality keeps coming from
  • It's a real shame about this game. I wanted to play but if f2p can't compete then what's the point of playing. Paying to win is boring and already less than a week into the game I am incredible bored. Real shame they decided to use every trick there is to make a casino game look like a competitve fighting game.
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    Yeah you go play for free at UNICEF because a company has to make money to keep the game going and once again there are 20k accounts that haven't spent a dime
  • A player who spend certainly will have some advantage. But all that comes to nothing if you don't spend time. This game requires time. A lot of it. Every one starts somewhere. Even beta. A good number of these beta f2p players are already in or close to the 20k group. I can testify to that because there are a good number f2p players in my alliance. My advise is manage your expectations better. F2P will always take a longer time to progress but it is not impossible. If you are looking around and getting affected by the progress of other players, it can be quite depressing as you may feel you are not progressing at the same rate or being close to the level you would like to be at the moment. If you find maps getting tougher, you have to rank your bots and that means having to keep repeating an earlier map over and over again for ores and gold. The sparks quests are daily and if you find those difficult as well, keep grinding an old map until you have more ranked up bots to use for the tougher quests. Along the way you will have the rub of the green and get those elusive 3 and 4-stars.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    Mustangjon wrote: »
    Once again you only have to forge the same bot one time you can forge any of the other 16 bots as many times as you need or your hearts desire so not sure where the having to gamble pull same bot pull same bot again mentality keeps coming from

    Where is it coming from? From the fact you need to pull a duplicate to unlock and level up signature abilities. I'm fully aware you "only" have to forge the bot one time, but as I said, gambling and getting the character once should be enough, a player should not need to gamble for three things (the bot, a duplicate for the sig, and a 1 star lower version for max forge cap) to unlock everything available on a character. This is a complete gacha style system, made illegal in Japan years ago. If a system is so bad it gets laws written banning it, even if this game is not in that country, they really should think about the fact it's obviously not good for it to get banned in the first place, so they probably shouldn't use it
  • MustangjonMustangjon Posts: 1,146
    There is no reasoning with this mindset

    If you don't like it then don't play

    You will pull more crystals than your face turns blue if you played the game instead of whining here that it's illegal in Japan blah blah

    A lot of beta players have maxed sig bots already which means they have been duplicated 20+ times so don't see it being issue to get a bot for max forge.

    And forge is not a part that is required to advance in the game!
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    Stop being a blind white knight. Don't like don't play has nothing to do with isssue. There is no whining here, just descriptive facts.

    The logic and reasoning is pretty simple. Elements the game uses for monetisation were banned in a country with the biggest mobile gaming industry in the world. They decided this kind of system is not good. They know what they're talking about, so it's probably a good idea to listen to them and follow their example. Again, a player should not need more than 1 draw to have the complete version of a character, mandatory multiple draws to unlock a stronger version is wrong.

    It doesn't matter how easy it was for beta players to draw multiple times, enough times to get 20+ duplicates, a player should not *need* to do that.

    It's not about whether something is needed to advance the game, it's about unlocking a stronger version of the character. Those types of systems were found to be not good and have too strong a gambling element. The industry adapted, it wasn't difficult or even large changes, it's a very small adjustment.

    If you can't see the reasoning you also can't see why the country introduced the laws to begin with so I can't help you any further to understand. Maybe you should go argue with the government that they were wrong, I didn't make the decision, they did.
  • 1Pharaoh1Pharaoh Posts: 36
    Only needing 1 draw to completely unlock a characters full potential takes the entire progression and team building element away from the game. Even if that was implemented, and you pull that same character again, then what? Would it have resulted in an empty pull?
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    1Pharaoh wrote: »
    Only needing 1 draw to completely unlock a characters full potential takes the entire progression and team building element away from the game. Even if that was implemented, and you pull that same character again, then what? Would it have resulted in an empty pull?

    You still have to level the character up and forge units to level up forge. Progression is still 100% there. What should be removed is needing a duplicate to gain access to signature moves and a lower star version to unlock /100 instead of /75 forge.

    Here is another example. I just pulled 3* sideswipe. I use 2* sideswipe and he's almost max, I've also drawn a duplicate 2* sideswipe so I have his signature ability. I'm taking a huge penalty and crippling my play experience just to gain access to /100 on my new 3* bot. Because of arenas, missions, base defends, raids and all of them having type advantage, I will always, always need 2* sideswipe, I will never be able to fully unlock my 3* without taking a huge hit and undoing lots of work and wasting lots of resources.

    One easy fix is allowing us to choose whether to forge a duplicate or turn them in to ore, and sig could be available as baseline and powered up through generic 'duplicate shards' or something.

    It could be argued that the current system discourages the team building element because we have to use valuable team members for the feature and can't use our duplicates for forging.

  • 1Pharaoh1Pharaoh Posts: 36
    There's nothing wrong with the current system. You're making it seem so much more complicated than it actually is.
  • TerminalTerminal Posts: 789
    lol, all I did was describe the current system. If it sounds overly complicated then maybe it is.

    https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/04/transformers-forged-to-fight-is-too-complex-for-its-own-good/

    If I want to unlock /100 forge on my 3* bot I need to lose my 2* version who already has his signature unlocked and levelled up. There will never be a situation where it isn't a huge disadvantage to lose my 2* version because of the wealth of areas you need multiple different bots and type advantages, I will always need that 2* bot for something.

    Here is as simple as I can make it:

    You need a 2* sideswipe to unlock your 3* sideswipe /100 forge, you need a second 3* sideswipe to unlock its signature ability. You need multiple 1* and 2* bots for all the different areas and type advantages. Forging consumes bots to level up.

    Duplicates are automatically turned in to ore so you can't use them for forging or unlocking max forge, your only option is to use your only copy, which may be levelled up and have its signature unlocked. All of that is lost.

    The systems in the game work against each other. There should be synergy, not sabotage.
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