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Support the game and it could become what you hoped it would be.

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  • SkBirdmanSkBirdman Posts: 391
    Raptor22 wrote: »
    Nutjob wrote: »
    Do a little experiment for me. Go and check some of the revenue websites. Compare MCOC and this game. I checked an Apple site, and November's income for MCOC was around $11 million, while this game was around $200k. So maybe you can tell me why there is so much effort being invested in MCOC and so little in this game.

    TFTF Dec 2018: $150K
    MCOC Dec 2018: $10M

    whats the web link?
  • I would love to support this game more. But I also would like to get a fair shake on these offers. For many months the offers feel like robbery. For instance this T4 offer. $50?!!!? NO WAY. How about 25 ish??
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    To use @Nutjob restaurant analogy. I’m not paying for food that is often is prepared incorrectly or makes me sick. Also don’t like buying potluck where you most likely getting bologna instead of steak.
  • ScarredArachnid333ScarredArachnid333 Posts: 1,856
    edited January 2019
    @Darm0k
    Wow. That's all I have to say.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    I'd read short stories by Darm0k
  • Darm0kDarm0k Posts: 2,485
    DaveJL wrote: »
    I'd read short stories by Darm0k

    :)
  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    Darm0k wrote: »
    tEa wrote: »
    To use @Nutjob restaurant analogy. I’m not paying for food that is often is prepared incorrectly or makes me sick. Also don’t like buying potluck where you most likely getting bologna instead of steak.

    I think it's more like you don't want to pay for food you don't know you'll ever get.

    Your arena bread is getting stale and you've eaten all your story salad. They brought out some new spotlight soup to appease you, but then you realize it's the same soup from a year ago with just some added salt and pepper on top. You wonder if there are any cooks in the kitchen.

    Also, your bot utensils are old and dirty they told you they aren't going to be bringing out any new ones so you have to use what's left. But it's a good chance to polish and clean them yourselves so your current silverware can be nice and shiny.

    There are pretty much no waiters walking around helping customers and there are bugs crawling over the place with no one there to take care of them.

    Then you look across the street at the fast food joint run by the same company and you see all the workers there having a good time. They're bringing out new food for their patrons and are throwing parties and events for them. They even have nice toy deals tied in to the current movie in the theaters.

    You look back at the restaurant your sitting in and hope it can return to the splendor it once had. A customer sitting on the table next to you tells you that you need to buy more stuff from the them, but the last time you gave them money, it looked like the worker just took it, walked across the street, and put in the register there. There's a possibility that that customer is nuts.

    Letting out a soft sigh, you reach down to have a sip of water, but then realize your glass is empty.

    That was very well written. After my chuckling died down, I simply have this question for you:

    Why do you keep coming back to this restaurant if it's so terrible? Just go to the shiny fast food joint across the road. I hear it's a marvel.

    If this restaurant is as terrible as you just described, only a fool would come back to eat. I suggest that the food is pretty good - good enough to keep you coming back and beg for the restaurant to stay open. You just wish they would change the menu, as you're tired of eating the same thing day after day.

    For them to change the menu, they need to be convinced that customers will actually support the new menu better than they did the old one. The issue is that this restaurant hasn't made much money for the whole time it's been open. It receives rave reviews, but people then go and buy their food somewhere else. They only come in when there are free samples and giveaways. Who on God's good earth opens a business just to entertain people, without making any money? That's called a charity, and it's not usually found in the entertainment industry.

    Everyone seems to lose sight of the fact that TFTF is a business with investors. If their returns suck, aren't they entitled to put their money into something more lucrative? Why flog a dead horse? Are you happy to go and buy stocks in a failing company that doesn't make money, just because I tell you that all of my friends love their products and don't want them to close down?

    All I have suggested is that people start putting a little money into TFTF. About $5-$10 monthly would make a world of difference. Most people wouldn't think twice about losing $10 from their wallets. If I found I'd dropped 10 bucks, I probably wouldn't even bother to retrace my steps to see if I could find it.

    Your other option is to just leave. Go away and leave behind the people who enjoy the game and may wish to invest in it. All of this negativity is probably putting off potential paying customers who might save the game you secretly love. Ever considered that?

    If I love Adidas shoes and you love Nike, great. You can go and buy Nike and I'll buy Adidas. We can talk about how great the shoes are and why we love them. What benefit is there to me complaining and telling everyone Adidas sucks and they need to improve their shoes, especially when I'm still wearing them?

    No one buys Adidas, the company closes stores, then I complain that I can't buy them anymore. Brilliant.



  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    @Nutjob you’re missing a big point. You love the restaurant theme. The problems you’re having are being ignored by the the wait staff. You want management to be aware of the issues, but they have a habit of either not listening or kicking people out who bring up complaints. You want the restaurant to work, but I’m not paying someone to force feed crappy food & service until they show they actually care about their customers & products & service. This could be one of the best restaurants around. I’m not giving up on it or the possibility that management change their approach. I’m probably going to get warned or kick for posting this, but if enough customers speak up then maybe there will be change. If not, the restaurant is certainly doomed.
  • Faithz17Faithz17 Posts: 842
    The mods have probably been let go or released from having to administer this forum already. This isn’t a restaurant anymore. Just a self-service vending machine.
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    Faithz17 wrote: »
    The mods have probably been let go or released from having to administer this forum already. This isn’t a restaurant anymore. Just a self-service vending machine.

    & it keeps spitting my dollar bill back out
  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob you’re missing a big point. You love the restaurant theme. The problems you’re having are being ignored by the the wait staff. You want management to be aware of the issues, but they have a habit of either not listening or kicking people out who bring up complaints. You want the restaurant to work, but I’m not paying someone to force feed crappy food & service until they show they actually care about their customers & products & service. This could be one of the best restaurants around. I’m not giving up on it or the possibility that management change their approach. I’m probably going to get warned or kick for posting this, but if enough customers speak up then maybe there will be change. If not, the restaurant is certainly doomed.

    I kind of get this, but the reality is that Kabam have shown that they will put effort into a financially viable game. MCOC is making 65X the monthly income of this one. If you have invested in two stocks, one is doing nothing, but the other has been steadily gaining value, wouldn't you ditch the poor one and reinvest the money in the decent one? This is especially true when historical performance shows that the poorer stock has never really done much, so it's probably never likely to.

    Kabam are rolling out changes and improvements for very happy MCOC fans. With 65X the money flowing in from those fans, is it any surprise?

    Now, back to the stocks example. What if the poorly performing stock started to rise and show signs of a recovery? That would leave you with a very difficult decision to make, but it's far less likely that you would bail on it, and far more likely that you might throw new investment capital at it.

    We are letting the TFTF stock flounder. I don't want to hear about previous purchases, as that's in the past and was never anywhere near MCOC levels. If we don't start committing some sort of money to this game, we can probably assume that this is as good as it's ever going to get. If, however, we do start making modest financial contributions, then Kabam has shown with MCOC that they will innovate and improve games that generate a profit, have they not?

    MCOC gets the love, because those fans are willing to pay for their game. We keep moaning and boast about the fact that we won't pay a cent, because we don't trust Kabam to reinvest our money in development. Just make the contributions per player small enough that you won't be upset if they do take it and run. If enough players do that, I think this will become the lucrative game that they can no longer ignore.

    The alternative is that we can just keep doing the same things, making the same complaints and suggestions, and hope against all the odds that Kabam will suddenly have a change of heart. One of the smartest people in history labelled this approach as the definition of stupidity. I tend to agree with him.
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    @Nutjob I couldn’t care less about MCOC or how successful it is. I don’t play it. I play TFTF & only care about it. For whatever the reason they’re neglecting TFTF. The reason doesn’t matter to me. I’m simply not putting money into a product that the makers aren’t focusing on. Just how I feel. It’s not my job to support them so they’ll care more. It’s their job to provide a product that I’ll pay for.
  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob I couldn’t care less about MCOC or how successful it is. I don’t play it. I play TFTF & only care about it. For whatever the reason they’re neglecting TFTF. The reason doesn’t matter to me. I’m simply not putting money into a product that the makers aren’t focusing on. Just how I feel. It’s not my job to support them so they’ll care more. It’s their job to provide a product that I’ll pay for.

    Then my suggestion is to take the game as it is, without expecting any significant improvements. That's all the market is paying for, and it's all we're entitled to get.

    Sad, but true.
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    edited January 2019
    Yes, and stay playing is the best support we can afford now. The thing we can't agree on is spending, about which I think others have made enough analogy why you shouldnt/neednt.

    This is what we dubbed 'ghost server mode' in our language.
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    @Nutjob As a player the worst thing I can do for the game is take it as is. This will only insure the game dies. The game will never get better if we are complacent. The game will never survive if it doesn’t get better. Everyone needs to speak up & voice their opinions & never be complacent.
  • KillMasterCKillMasterC Posts: 3,105
    Personally I prefer Kabam pull the plug now and flush us all down the abysmal than a slow death.
  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob As a player the worst thing I can do for the game is take it as is. This will only insure the game dies. The game will never get better if we are complacent. The game will never survive if it doesn’t get better. Everyone needs to speak up & voice their opinions & never be complacent.

    My guess is that Kabam wants money, not our opinions. Why would they care about the opinions of customers they don't really want or need? If we were financially supporting this game and then expressed discontent, they would probably listen.

    We don't have any power and our opinions are kind of meaningless, because we're not good customers. That's why rich customers get VIP labels and the best service. They get it because they actually make decent money for the company. We don't. MCOC is getting that 'VIP' service. That game turns a decent profit.

    Our voices are meaningless without financial power. That's the way the world works. The most effective people don't become presidents, only the richest and most influential. The best games don't get the attention of developers, only the most profitable.

    This game never has, and probably never will be, a decent investment for Kabam. That's down to the demographics of the customer base. Other inferior games receive more financial support from their customers. MCOC is an inferior game according to all and sundry, but its players are willing to spend money. TFTF customers are too prudish for the game to succeed.
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    That's the harsh reality really - money talks.

    When Kabam made unwanted changes to MCoC (think it was 13.0 update) there was huge outcry. They changed things.

    The active player base here isn't even big enough to warrant making more changes, nevermind the % of that player base that spends money.

    I would be willing to bet that there are more players who spend $100 per month on MCoC than there are active f2p and p2p players combined playing this game.

    That's the problem with the stock analogy - even if the revenue in this game picks up a little bit, are the fundamentals in place to make it a success? Active players. Is there a large enough audience to attract over to this game? Even if a stock goes up in price, you still need to analyse the fundamentals to make sure it isn't spurious.
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    @Nutjob the way you campaign for people to spend money I have to ask if you work do Kabam
  • DaveJLDaveJL Posts: 1,779
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob As a player the worst thing I can do for the game is take it as is. This will only insure the game dies. The game will never get better if we are complacent. The game will never survive if it doesn’t get better. Everyone needs to speak up & voice their opinions & never be complacent.


    Yet here you are, declaring how you are wilfully ignorant to half of the problem and also declaring you aren't going to support the game anyway. What exactly are you willing to pay for and exactly how much are you willing to pay? You sound like one of those entitled customers who thinks they should get everything for nothing quite honestly.

    Whether you play MCoC or not, whether you care about it or not, it's a game that is incredibly similar to this one and obviously shares forum staff and I would suggest development staff too. If they, being Kabam, are having to split a finite resource, being labour, between two products then they are going to favour the most profitable one, being MCoC. You can't just declare that you are happy to be ignorant to that - it's an obvious factor as to why this game isn't progressing.

    The reason Kabam aren't focussing on this game is either they lost the licence to produce content or it simply isn't financially, and hasn't been financially viable for them to keep investing in it. The blame for that can be attributed everywhere, to us the players for not spending enough and Kabam for not enticing enough players to play and not providing content that retains enough paying customers.

    Either way, if you think that your opinion, or anyones opinion on here for that matter, counts for absolutely anything at all unless it translates in to an acceptable profit for Kabam, then you are so so wrong and clearly don't understand how the world of business works.
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    @Nutjob Sure does sound like you work for Kabam. So, are you guys planning on more revamping?
  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    DaveJL wrote: »
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob As a player the worst thing I can do for the game is take it as is. This will only insure the game dies. The game will never get better if we are complacent. The game will never survive if it doesn’t get better. Everyone needs to speak up & voice their opinions & never be complacent.


    Yet here you are, declaring how you are wilfully ignorant to half of the problem and also declaring you aren't going to support the game anyway. What exactly are you willing to pay for and exactly how much are you willing to pay? You sound like one of those entitled customers who thinks they should get everything for nothing quite honestly.

    Whether you play MCoC or not, whether you care about it or not, it's a game that is incredibly similar to this one and obviously shares forum staff and I would suggest development staff too. If they, being Kabam, are having to split a finite resource, being labour, between two products then they are going to favour the most profitable one, being MCoC. You can't just declare that you are happy to be ignorant to that - it's an obvious factor as to why this game isn't progressing.

    The reason Kabam aren't focussing on this game is either they lost the licence to produce content or it simply isn't financially, and hasn't been financially viable for them to keep investing in it. The blame for that can be attributed everywhere, to us the players for not spending enough and Kabam for not enticing enough players to play and not providing content that retains enough paying customers.

    Either way, if you think that your opinion, or anyones opinion on here for that matter, counts for absolutely anything at all unless it translates in to an acceptable profit for Kabam, then you are so so wrong and clearly don't understand how the world of business works.

    A voice of reason. DaveJL, thank you for being born.
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    @DaveJL I don’t have to understand their position or do I have to post comments with an insulting tone. I play the game & if they ever make it worthy of me paying then I might pay. This isn’t a chicken or egg situation. I don’t owe them or their employees a thing. The way the game is set up, so I don’t have to pay to play. If they or you want my money then make it worth it. Not my fault Kabam set it up that way. That’s “ignorant “ on their part. So now you can respond with more insulting tone. How much does Kabam pay?
  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob Sure does sound like you work for Kabam. So, are you guys planning on more revamping?

    Sorry to disappoint you. I don't work for Kabam. I, like many others, want to see this game succeed. Personally, I have invested significantly in purchases in an attempt to support it. Having done a little bit of research into monthly revenues from this and MCOC, I have been disappointed to find that I'm mainly alone in that regard.

    I can see that our current player-base model is not working, and is the most likely cause for the game floundering. That's why I came here to suggest a feasible solution - that people who are active in the game make a small investment on a frequent basis. I truly believe that $5 - $10 per month, per fairly active player, is a reasonable reflection of the entertainment this game provides, and would make a significant difference to the monthly income.

    If we did something like that, we would learn a lot about Kabam. Either they would take notice and we would see an influx of development into the game, or else they would ignore it, and we would at least know that the future of the game is effectively out of our hands.

    There is a reason that there is a saying - 'Put your money where your mouth is', but I have never heard anyone say - 'Put your mouth where your money is.' We are giving Kabam our mouths in an attempt to encourage them, but I am suspicious that what they really want is money. Almost all of us don't work for free, but we expect that Kabam will. Why? As long as we give them some suggestions for their product, or complain about it, they will happily take losses to give us what we want? Would you? If you would, I'd love to hear your justification, because I don't know anyone who would be happy with that arrangement.

    We have never really contributed much money to this game. The monthly income figures have never been strong. If that were to change, it would be interesting to see how Kabam would react. Currently, the community is disappointed with Kabam's investment in this game and community. However, we're giving them no incentive whatsoever to change their approach. Mobile games are businesses, not community service endeavours.

    There is no Kabam in front of my forum handle. I can even show you a number of my Google Play purchase receipts for the game. If I did work for Kabam, I would be pretty stupid wasting my money on something I could probably play-test for free.
  • tEatEa Posts: 65
    @Nutjob I’m not telling you how to spend your money or will I be told how to spend mine. This is a forum page for all kinds of discussion on the game. I can voice my opinion if I want & I don’t need to “War & Peace” it to do it. Does sound like you either work for Kabam or regret spending all that money
  • Red_EyesRed_Eyes Posts: 994

    Nutjob wrote: »
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob Sure does sound like you work for Kabam. So, are you guys planning on more revamping?

    Sorry to disappoint you. I don't work for Kabam. I, like many others, want to see this game succeed. Personally, I have invested significantly in purchases in an attempt to support it. Having done a little bit of research into monthly revenues from this and MCOC, I have been disappointed to find that I'm mainly alone in that regard.

    I can see that our current player-base model is not working, and is the most likely cause for the game floundering. That's why I came here to suggest a feasible solution - that people who are active in the game make a small investment on a frequent basis. I truly believe that $5 - $10 per month, per fairly active player, is a reasonable reflection of the entertainment this game provides, and would make a significant difference to the monthly income.

    If we did something like that, we would learn a lot about Kabam. Either they would take notice and we would see an influx of development into the game, or else they would ignore it, and we would at least know that the future of the game is effectively out of our hands.

    There is a reason that there is a saying - 'Put your money where your mouth is', but I have never heard anyone say - 'Put your mouth where your money is.' We are giving Kabam our mouths in an attempt to encourage them, but I am suspicious that what they really want is money. Almost all of us don't work for free, but we expect that Kabam will. Why? As long as we give them some suggestions for their product, or complain about it, they will happily take losses to give us what we want? Would you? If you would, I'd love to hear your justification, because I don't know anyone who would be happy with that arrangement.

    We have never really contributed much money to this game. The monthly income figures have never been strong. If that were to change, it would be interesting to see how Kabam would react. Currently, the community is disappointed with Kabam's investment in this game and community. However, we're giving them no incentive whatsoever to change their approach. Mobile games are businesses, not community service endeavours.

    There is no Kabam in front of my forum handle. I can even show you a number of my Google Play purchase receipts for the game. If I did work for Kabam, I would be pretty stupid wasting my money on something I could probably play-test for free.


    "I would be pretty stupid wasting my money on something I could probably play-test for free."


    Think about that for a while.
  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob I’m not telling you how to spend your money or will I be told how to spend mine. This is a forum page for all kinds of discussion on the game. I can voice my opinion if I want & I don’t need to “War & Peace” it to do it. Does sound like you either work for Kabam or regret spending all that money

    There is a big difference between a suggestion and a command. Look both words up if you don't believe me. I am simply proposing a potential solution to the problem of arrested development for this game. I have never told you what to do with your money. I don't even know if you have any.

    If you don't like the topic, feel free to not comment and enjoy some other forum posts. I am looking for people with open minds and assets that can validly be exchanged for electronic services, and suggesting a course of action that may help the game. If you don't like the idea, or don't have legal tender, no problem.

    We can agree to disagree. However, assumption is a risky habit and is something I would never recommend. You've made your point about your belief that I work for Kabam. I can assure you that I don't, but if you're unhappy with my answer, you can continue to insist that I do. You would just be wrong.









  • NutjobNutjob Posts: 150
    Red_Eyes wrote: »
    Nutjob wrote: »
    tEa wrote: »
    @Nutjob Sure does sound like you work for Kabam. So, are you guys planning on more revamping?

    Sorry to disappoint you. I don't work for Kabam. I, like many others, want to see this game succeed. Personally, I have invested significantly in purchases in an attempt to support it. Having done a little bit of research into monthly revenues from this and MCOC, I have been disappointed to find that I'm mainly alone in that regard.

    I can see that our current player-base model is not working, and is the most likely cause for the game floundering. That's why I came here to suggest a feasible solution - that people who are active in the game make a small investment on a frequent basis. I truly believe that $5 - $10 per month, per fairly active player, is a reasonable reflection of the entertainment this game provides, and would make a significant difference to the monthly income.

    If we did something like that, we would learn a lot about Kabam. Either they would take notice and we would see an influx of development into the game, or else they would ignore it, and we would at least know that the future of the game is effectively out of our hands.

    There is a reason that there is a saying - 'Put your money where your mouth is', but I have never heard anyone say - 'Put your mouth where your money is.' We are giving Kabam our mouths in an attempt to encourage them, but I am suspicious that what they really want is money. Almost all of us don't work for free, but we expect that Kabam will. Why? As long as we give them some suggestions for their product, or complain about it, they will happily take losses to give us what we want? Would you? If you would, I'd love to hear your justification, because I don't know anyone who would be happy with that arrangement.

    We have never really contributed much money to this game. The monthly income figures have never been strong. If that were to change, it would be interesting to see how Kabam would react. Currently, the community is disappointed with Kabam's investment in this game and community. However, we're giving them no incentive whatsoever to change their approach. Mobile games are businesses, not community service endeavours.

    There is no Kabam in front of my forum handle. I can even show you a number of my Google Play purchase receipts for the game. If I did work for Kabam, I would be pretty stupid wasting my money on something I could probably play-test for free.


    "I would be pretty stupid wasting my money on something I could probably play-test for free."


    Think about that for a while.

    Hahaha! This is hardly an early access standard offering. Let's be reasonable. You still made me laugh, though.
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