@BlackRazak I think Manthro's hate against Sideswipe doesn't come from his basic values (on which he received some upgrades). He basically argues Sideswipe has nothing that stands out among Scouts and everyone can replace him with another scout.
This I disagree, though.
'cos I love multiple stuns and ending the fight quickly with an upperhand on specials.
@BlackRazak I think Manthro's hate against Sideswipe doesn't come from his basic values (on which he received some upgrades). He basically argues Sideswipe has nothing that stands out among Scouts and everyone can replace him with another scout.
This I disagree, though.
'cos I love multiple stuns and ending the fight quickly with an upperhand on specials.
@KillMasterC and now that his SPs and abilities are UPGRADED...Yowza.
I can see a high level Sideswipe with either LGM or Nightbird being a raid-base badarse.
@BlackRazak I think Manthro's hate against Sideswipe doesn't come from his basic values (on which he received some upgrades). He basically argues Sideswipe has nothing that stands out among Scouts and everyone can replace him with another scout.
This I disagree, though.
'cos I love multiple stuns and ending the fight quickly with an upperhand on specials.
Correct. Sideswipe is still nothing more than a glorified sharkticon. If you want to make sideswipe unique then here's a suggestion...
Add the following skill to his base kit:
When stunned opponent receives minus 80% power rate debuff for the duration of the stun, and sideswipe receives plus 10% power rate for the duration of the stun.
This will allow you to outpace your opponent while being able to chain together combos and stuns without fear of maxing the opponent power bar too quickly.
This one simple addition to his base kit makes him unique to the Scout class while also bringing him in line with their core abilities.
@Kabam Miike can you clarify something about the buff to kickback please?
It says critical blade hits on special 2 now cause bleeds.... Is this in addition to causing power leak on each critical hit, or is it supplanting this ability?
If it is replacing the power leaks then I feel that this is a Nerf not a buff. If a player wants to do damage debuffs he already has the ability to convert those power leaks into shocks. Making him land only bleeds on S2 actually takes away from his kit.
Special II is the only time kickback can apply more than three power leaks at a time. If he only causes bleeds now, I feel it's appropriate to remove the 3x cap on power leaks received from basic hits. This will allow him to effectively stack the number of power leaks necessary to actually be useful, and use them as power leaks, or as a large shock debuff or as a large heal.
being able to stack only three really reduces the effectiveness of these unique abilities
You are taking away a fundamental core ability otherwise, which works exceptionally well with the enforcers synergy.
I may be WAY out of line. But can we ALL at least try out the new rebalance before we bombard the mods? It’s not like anything will get reprogrammed tonight or even tomorrow. Let’s try it out and see exactly what is going on. I know we all have our reservations towards the company but I do have renewed trust In them because of the much needed communication, and listening. Let’s just give it a try then figure out exactly what needs to be said. Just don’t want to bother the mods preemptive.
@Kabam Miike can you clarify something about the buff to kickback please?
It says critical blade hits on special 2 now cause bleeds.... Is this in addition to causing power leak on each critical hit, or is it supplanting this ability?
If it is replacing the power leaks then I feel that this is a Nerf not a buff. If a player wants to do damage debuffs he already has the ability to convert those power leaks into shocks. Making him land only bleeds on S2 actually takes away from his kit.
Special II is the only time kickback can apply more than three power leaks at a time. If he only causes bleeds now, I feel it's appropriate to remove the 3x cap on power leaks received from basic hits. This will allow him to effectively stack the number of power leaks necessary to actually be useful, and use them as power leaks, or as a large shock debuff or as a large heal.
being able to stack only three really reduces the effectiveness of these unique abilities
You are taking away a fundamental core ability otherwise, which works exceptionally well with the enforcers synergy.
Just my two cents
I full well agree with what you're saying @Manthro , and I asked about this in a different discussion. Often times I go a little above the Sp2 activation point so I can get a couple power leaks in. I soon hit with a sp1 to activate shocks. If it only inflicts bleed, it seems like an important part of Kickback's skillset is being taken away.
If they took away Kickback's SP2 Power Leaks that would be a nerf and Megatronus was the only bot to be nerfed. Certainly they would have told us if they were going to remove that ability.
What kind of bullshit is that? After all of us have a decent bot weve wasted our time leveling up as a way to help us, your going to kill him and make him ****?? This update is suppose to help players? That doesnt fucking help you cocksuckers!
Still don't understand how a slight adjustment to Megatronus base stats is cause for players to complain so vehemently:
MEGATRONUS
• Removed 2% base Health.
• Removed 4% base Attack.
Do the math on a fully forged Megatronus.
This amounts to about one less critical heavy attack to take him down, and in a way it actually improves him on robot resource for base defense.
It will take slightly longer for Megatronus to take down an opponent as a defender.
The Nerf actually makes him more dangerous to fight from this perspective, as he will have more opportunities to connect with special attacks. This means more power steals and life steals as well.
Sure, it's a slight Nerf when a player uses him as an attacker, but in base defense this can make him better on RR, not worse.
I didn't understand the logic, @Manthro . Why less health means longer fight? And since there are Tronus's at various level/rank/forge, why is 2% health always one crit heavy?
I didn't understand the logic, @Manthro . Why less health means longer fight? And since there are Tronus's at various level/rank/forge, why is 2% health always one crit heavy?
There is absolutely no logic there at all, and in no way does less health lead to a longer fight.
I think what he's getting at is he will die harder, but with a vengence. So, if robotronus has less attack, then he won't kill defenders as swiftly as before, hence giving robotronus more time to RR up the power and pop more specials.
I didn't understand the logic, @Manthro . Why less health means longer fight? And since there are Tronus's at various level/rank/forge, why is 2% health always one crit heavy?
There is absolutely no logic there at all, and in no way does less health lead to a longer fight.
I think what he's getting at is he will die harder, but with a vengence. So, if robotronus has less attack, then he won't kill defenders as swiftly as before, hence giving robotronus more time to RR up the power and pop more specials.
Umm... no. It just means he dies faster. Sorry guys there is absolutely no benefit to Robosaurus losing base health and attack, it is only to appease those of you who cannot beat a base that has him.
@Beastdad IMHO it's to prevent players from blasting thru AI opponents.
A 10K Megatronus on RR may be tough, but there are quite a few counters.
Motormaster. Galvatron. Cyclonus. Prowl. G1 Megs. Grimlock. Wheeljack. RHINOX. Kickback. MV Megs.
Nanojack only has Cheetor, Bonecrusher, Windblade, Cyclonus and maybe Tronus, so i think it's really to benefit KABAM.
@BlackRazak , if you have Shockwave, it is almost impossible to lose to Tronus.
Yes, amongst the many countermeasures already mentioned
That's why I'm so pleased my R5 Tronus is balanced. Keeps the game more interesting, and SKILL based.
Now more bots can join in the fun.
I'm just surprised by the vitriol. So what if you spent/worked to level up a bot.
Isn't that the whole point of games?
Now the game is more of a challenge. Yay!
I didn't understand the logic, @Manthro . Why less health means longer fight? And since there are Tronus's at various level/rank/forge, why is 2% health always one crit heavy?
There is absolutely no logic there at all, and in no way does less health lead to a longer fight.
I think what he's getting at is he will die harder, but with a vengence. So, if robotronus has less attack, then he won't kill defenders as swiftly as before, hence giving robotronus more time to RR up the power and pop more specials.
But... are we supposed to get killed? If our concern is 'get killed slower or faster', we are killed anyway. No. We try to beat him. On that note, him having less attack is profitable.
If i'm to lose the battle I can rage quit anyway, lol.
I didn't understand the logic, @Manthro . Why less health means longer fight? And since there are Tronus's at various level/rank/forge, why is 2% health always one crit heavy?
There is absolutely no logic there at all, and in no way does less health lead to a longer fight.
I think what he's getting at is he will die harder, but with a vengence. So, if robotronus has less attack, then he won't kill defenders as swiftly as before, hence giving robotronus more time to RR up the power and pop more specials.
But... are we supposed to get killed? If our concern is 'get killed slower or faster', we are killed anyway. No. We try to beat him. On that note, him having less attack is profitable.
If i'm to lose the battle I can rage quit anyway, lol.
Yeah I'm not arguing either direction. Just trying to see the reasoning. Robotronus can be super frustrating with an evenly matched, or underpowered team, but I rarely have problems with him using my A-team.
I didn't understand the logic, @Manthro . Why less health means longer fight? And since there are Tronus's at various level/rank/forge, why is 2% health always one crit heavy?
Less health doesn't mean a longer fight, less attack does.
It takes more hits for Megatronus to defeat an opponent, therefore, he has more time to charge his power bar.
I didn't understand the logic, @Manthro . Why less health means longer fight? And since there are Tronus's at various level/rank/forge, why is 2% health always one crit heavy?
There is absolutely no logic there at all, and in no way does less health lead to a longer fight.
I think what he's getting at is he will die harder, but with a vengence. So, if robotronus has less attack, then he won't kill defenders as swiftly as before, hence giving robotronus more time to RR up the power and pop more specials.
Umm... no. It just means he dies faster. Sorry guys there is absolutely no benefit to Robosaurus losing base health and attack, it is only to appease those of you who cannot beat a base that has him.
@Beastdad IMHO it's to prevent players from blasting thru AI opponents.
A 10K Megatronus on RR may be tough, but there are quite a few counters.
Motormaster. Galvatron. Cyclonus. Prowl. G1 Megs. Grimlock. Wheeljack. RHINOX. Kickback. MV Megs.
Nanojack only has Cheetor, Bonecrusher, Windblade, Cyclonus and maybe Tronus, so i think it's really to benefit KABAM.
Nanojack has waaaay more counters than that. Literally any bot that deliver a damage debuff on S1 has zero problems vs nanojack, OR any bot that delivers damage debuffs on basic/heavy, such as:
Comments
This I disagree, though.
'cos I love multiple stuns and ending the fight quickly with an upperhand on specials.
@KillMasterC and now that his SPs and abilities are UPGRADED...Yowza.
I can see a high level Sideswipe with either LGM or Nightbird being a raid-base badarse.
Correct. Sideswipe is still nothing more than a glorified sharkticon. If you want to make sideswipe unique then here's a suggestion...
Add the following skill to his base kit:
When stunned opponent receives minus 80% power rate debuff for the duration of the stun, and sideswipe receives plus 10% power rate for the duration of the stun.
This will allow you to outpace your opponent while being able to chain together combos and stuns without fear of maxing the opponent power bar too quickly.
This one simple addition to his base kit makes him unique to the Scout class while also bringing him in line with their core abilities.
It says critical blade hits on special 2 now cause bleeds.... Is this in addition to causing power leak on each critical hit, or is it supplanting this ability?
If it is replacing the power leaks then I feel that this is a Nerf not a buff. If a player wants to do damage debuffs he already has the ability to convert those power leaks into shocks. Making him land only bleeds on S2 actually takes away from his kit.
Special II is the only time kickback can apply more than three power leaks at a time. If he only causes bleeds now, I feel it's appropriate to remove the 3x cap on power leaks received from basic hits. This will allow him to effectively stack the number of power leaks necessary to actually be useful, and use them as power leaks, or as a large shock debuff or as a large heal.
being able to stack only three really reduces the effectiveness of these unique abilities
You are taking away a fundamental core ability otherwise, which works exceptionally well with the enforcers synergy.
Just my two cents
I full well agree with what you're saying @Manthro , and I asked about this in a different discussion. Often times I go a little above the Sp2 activation point so I can get a couple power leaks in. I soon hit with a sp1 to activate shocks. If it only inflicts bleed, it seems like an important part of Kickback's skillset is being taken away.
Maybe it was just my luck, but I could barely get stun to proc on his S1. Though the highest I had was a r4 4 star. Forged him away.
But I'm surprised they didn't do anything about his lackluster Regen. Oh well.
Username checks out
MEGATRONUS
• Removed 2% base Health.
• Removed 4% base Attack.
Do the math on a fully forged Megatronus.
This amounts to about one less critical heavy attack to take him down, and in a way it actually improves him on robot resource for base defense.
It will take slightly longer for Megatronus to take down an opponent as a defender.
The Nerf actually makes him more dangerous to fight from this perspective, as he will have more opportunities to connect with special attacks. This means more power steals and life steals as well.
Sure, it's a slight Nerf when a player uses him as an attacker, but in base defense this can make him better on RR, not worse.
I think what he's getting at is he will die harder, but with a vengence. So, if robotronus has less attack, then he won't kill defenders as swiftly as before, hence giving robotronus more time to RR up the power and pop more specials.
@Beastdad IMHO it's to prevent players from blasting thru AI opponents.
A 10K Megatronus on RR may be tough, but there are quite a few counters.
Motormaster. Galvatron. Cyclonus. Prowl. G1 Megs. Grimlock. Wheeljack. RHINOX. Kickback. MV Megs.
Nanojack only has Cheetor, Bonecrusher, Windblade, Cyclonus and maybe Tronus, so i think it's really to benefit KABAM.
In Raid?
Yes, amongst the many countermeasures already mentioned
That's why I'm so pleased my R5 Tronus is balanced. Keeps the game more interesting, and SKILL based.
Now more bots can join in the fun.
I'm just surprised by the vitriol. So what if you spent/worked to level up a bot.
Isn't that the whole point of games?
Now the game is more of a challenge. Yay!
You nerds complaining need to take a chill pill.
If i'm to lose the battle I can rage quit anyway, lol.
Yeah I'm not arguing either direction. Just trying to see the reasoning. Robotronus can be super frustrating with an evenly matched, or underpowered team, but I rarely have problems with him using my A-team.
On my Tronus that translates to him losing 1112 health. He's still tankier than most bots and his Relic of Preservation makes him tougher still.
Oh and the 2% damage reduction means a loss of 40 attack rating. Oh the horror!
Stop being angry for the sake of it and do the math.
Less health doesn't mean a longer fight, less attack does.
It takes more hits for Megatronus to defeat an opponent, therefore, he has more time to charge his power bar.
How is this difficult to understand?
Nanojack has waaaay more counters than that. Literally any bot that deliver a damage debuff on S1 has zero problems vs nanojack, OR any bot that delivers damage debuffs on basic/heavy, such as:
Rhinox
Tantrum
Primal
OGP
KB
Dinobot
Scorponok
JF
Scream
Grindor
IH
Mix
Grimlock
RJ
Man... There are sooooo many. Not even going to bother listing more.